CCI 400 vs 450

[Bill the loader]

Decided to see difference between standard small rifle primers and magnum. New lapua brass, 27.5 TAC. Standard primers 2315 FPS. Magnum primers 2384. Can't see any pressure difference. Easy extraction. 450,s .92 inch 3 shot group. 400,s 1.87 inch group. That could be harmonic difference in speed. Hope this helps. Shot in howa bolt ,22 inch barrel.

[lrgrendel]

I own a Howa 20”.

I found the Federal 205m more accurate than the CCI 450, everything else being equal.
The 450’s are probably the best in a “gas” gun, maybe not in a “bolt”....

[grayfox]

When I tested various primers I found the difference not only in the avg velocity but also in SD and ES... I go with the ones that give the tightest vel groupings, lowest SD/ES... may or may not be the "fastest" however.

[Bill the loader]

The standard had the lowest ES, but magnum wasn't bad. 12 fps standard 24 for magnum

[Kilco]

I've always had amazing luck with the 450s in my Grendel.

I believe with CFE223 I was getting an ES of 10fps... I was quite amazed.

They are rugged as well.. never see pre-mature pressure signs.

[Lone Hunter]

Bill, It looks like the 450's even with the higher ES shoot better in your rifle. I shoot them out of my .264 LBC and really like them. Going to load them up in Lapua brass for the Mini Action with 8208 and CFE223. Hope it shoots best with 8208 so I can keep the same powder for both rifles. Looks like most loading data uses them.

[SDguy]

450 is the prefered primer out of the 6.5 Grendel case IMHO

Bill, It looks like the 450's even with the higher ES shoot better in your rifle. I shoot them out of my .264 LBC and really like them. Going to load them up in Lapua brass for the Mini Action with 8208 and CFE223. Hope it shoots best with 8208 so I can keep the same powder for both rifles. Looks like most loading data uses them.

450 is the prefered primer out of the 6.5 Grendel capacity cartridge IMHO at leas 9 out of 10 cases. My go to primer for sure if working w a ball powder. One of the reasons I like the 450 or BR4 so much does not apply to the 6,5 Grendel in the AR platform, As we are limited to a lower pressure. The thicker harder primer takes pressure better than the CCI 400 thinner cup offering.

Now personally my goal is for bolt action rifles only and I may on occation exceed the acceptable pressure limits set for the AR bolt. In this case the thicker cup may offer an advantage. The higher capacity case compared to a 223 encourages me to push for a magnum primer.

if I am initially working up a load where the load data is lacking I may choose a thinner cup primer as the thinner primers offer one more window to reading pressure in the Bolt action again.

I am a weird duck on this forum as the AR platform has little appeal for my purposes.

[Kilco]

I am a weird duck on this forum as the AR platform has little appeal for my purposes.

On the contrary!!!

People who focus more on the Grendel in a bolt gun are very valuable for info. Considering all the places in the world where a bolt gun is the only option, and the wider window of hand loads a bolt gun allows, you sir are very precious!

[Lone Hunter]

SDguy, I have never hunted deer with an AR, Until recently,last 5 yrs, I have always hunted with a bolt gun. I have always had an AR but it has sat in the safe. I'm like you as I like my bolt actions but I like being able to put together different weapons. I can do this with AR platforms. It has surprised me the accuracy of the AR rifles. I have put together several AR's and really like them but I will always be a bolt gun guy. The mini action I just got is very impressive also. Got to figure out some loads now. Make the first one count and you don't need fast follow up shots. I can work the bolt pretty quick when I'm excited.

[blltsmth]

Glad to hear someone else loads 27.5 grains of TAC in the Howa mini!! Both my 20 inch and 22 inch print 117 grain bullets into 1/2 inch groups with this load at a little under 2500 fps at around 2480-2485 fps measured with a magneto-speed chrony. Very accurate arms indeed!!!

[SDguy]

SDguy, I have never hunted deer with an AR, Until recently,last 5 yrs, I have always hunted with a bolt gun. I have always had an AR but it has sat in the safe. I'm like you as I like my bolt actions but I like being able to put together different weapons. I can do this with AR platforms. It has surprised me the accuracy of the AR rifles. I have put together several AR's and really like them but I will always be a bolt gun guy. The mini action I just got is very impressive also. Got to figure out some loads now. Make the first one count and you don't need fast follow up shots. I can work the bolt pretty quick when I'm excited.

Yea encountering a 223 AR of my dads and the accuracy she was capable of (bug holes) along with the accuracy some are touting from various AR type 6.5 Grendel builds have had me thinking long and hard. Still I come back to my needs and the little CZ 527 6.5 Grendel covers things quite nicely.

Over and over again I am baffeled with the velocity w LVR under 129 grain HNDY SP observed w no pressure signs. Along comes someone offering Velocity is your first clue to pressure.

I beg to differ in this case. In this small cartridge I kept working up the powder charge with no signs of pressure. While ES goes to heck as the powder charge was increased due to unfavorable conditions of over compression. Continuing the work up 2 grains over my favored load left me very comfortable with the pressure of the lighter more accurate favored load delivering insane velocity for the boiler room available IMHO.

Don't get me wrong, I Still would love to have the test equipment available to prove just where pressures fall with the high velocity load.

[Bill the loader]

Let me know how the 8208 shoots lone Hunter, I haven't tried it so would be very interested. I've shot it .223 with good results.

[Bill the loader]

I load for friends, and sometimes friends of friends. My usual fee is left over powder and bullets. They bring me the components, I inform them how many rounds to expect after load testing etc. And I keep all that's left. I'm also picky about who I load for. And refuse to load for speed only. That's how I became grendel fan, loaded for AR platform. Saw how well it shot and as I'm old fart I've decided recoil is no one's friend.

[sneaky one]

Metal cup thickness , and outer diameter are the main indifferences between the 400-450 CCI's .. BR -4 has the widest diameter of cups

All of my load data is from 450's- as per Bill A' recommendations on my Gmx trials. He was there for me if needed. He is still here for us all.

Contact him- he's here- He invented this round, after a few started the idea of it.