Well, I just picked up a box of the American Gunner (sorry Randy, but this one is going to research).
IMG_2847.jpg
What follows began as an initial assessment of the American Gunner 6.5 Grendel ammunition from Hornady, but morphed into a side by side comparison of the American Gunner, in the previously unknown 123 HPBT, vs. the Hornady Black, in 123 ELD-M.
First, I have to say that the American Gunner, for an affordably priced $0.75 per round, is surprisingly consistent in terms of seated length and concentricity. Bullet weight is right at 123.0 gr. The projectile appears very similar to the Nosler Custom Comp’s I’ve shot (1000’s) and the Ogive is definitely further forward than the ELD-M. This suggests an inferior BC to the ELD, but range day will yield more data.
Available at $1.05 per round ($0.85 on sale), the Hornady Black’s 123 ELD-M projectile is noticeably sleeker, with what appears to be a Hybrid Secant Ogive. This translates into a relatively high BC, advertised by Hornady at a realistic .255 G7. It is noteworthy that Hornady has been using Doppler Radar for the last few years, which has provided them with remarkable capabilities to observe external ballistics and in determining actual BC.
For the direct comparison, I randomly selected 10 rounds of each and recorded COAL, BTO, Concentricity, Bullet weight and Charge weight. (For the last two, I only pulled a single sample of each.)
First, the glamour shots…
Here are, left to right, the now discontinued 123 Amax, the 123 ELD-M and the 123 HPBT.
Note the darker “Heat Shield” tip of the ELD, and the more pronounced Ogive of the BTHP.
IMG_2845.jpg
Both the ELD and the BTHP weighed in at exactly 123 grains.
Next, I examined and weighed the powder charges. I first noticed that the powders look to be the same, based on appearance. The American Gunner had a charge of 29.8 gr and, interestingly, the Hdy Black a charge of 28.8 gr, one full grain less. Chronograph testing to follow...
Below are the two samples, with an inset of a sample of CFE223 for contrast.
IMG_2839 copy.jpg
I noticed that the CFE looks more uniform than the powder in either of the two Hornady loads, so I suppose the only thing I can conclude is that we can confirm what we probably already knew, and that the powder is not likely CFE223.
Finally, there is the length and concentricity data.
The Base To Ogive (BTO) was determined with the Hornady Bullet comparator, using the #5 (260) bushing.
Based on BTO, both the BTHP and the ELD-M were seated very consistently. COAL? Not so much, but well within SAAMI specification and almost .010” less that “magazine length” of 2.250”. All measurements are in inches.
At 0.036” longer than the ELD, the BTO of the BTHP comes as no surprise. On the other hand, that both COAL’s average out the same does come as a bit of a surprise, given the two different bullet types.
The real eyebrow raise comes when you look at the concentricity numbers. The so-called everyday ammunition is actually a bit straighter than the Black ammunition. Curious, I checked the remaining ten rounds from the same box of Black and found similar results. The only take away I have from this, is that the use of the ELD-M bullet used in the Hornady Black does not necessarily equate to “Match Grade” ammunition – just the use of some “match grade” components.
Weather permitting, I will be at the range, this weekend, with both the American Gunner and a chronograph. I’ll also shoot some more of the Hornady Black over the chrony for a MV comparison. We have steel plates out to 750 yards and, if freshly painted, I can get some drop data on both rounds to try and estimate the BC of these new BTHP’s. Or, Hornady could save me the trouble and just publish the data.
Just a final thought - when I read some people saying there is no 6.5 Grendel to be found, I have to think to myself "What dark closet are they searching in?" With no particular effort, I have 100's of loaded ammunition and thousands of components. And the selection only keeps getting better, thanks to the likes of Hornady, Federal, AA and the rest.
IMG_2826.jpg
Grendel Life is good and getting better!
IMG_2847.jpg
What follows began as an initial assessment of the American Gunner 6.5 Grendel ammunition from Hornady, but morphed into a side by side comparison of the American Gunner, in the previously unknown 123 HPBT, vs. the Hornady Black, in 123 ELD-M.
First, I have to say that the American Gunner, for an affordably priced $0.75 per round, is surprisingly consistent in terms of seated length and concentricity. Bullet weight is right at 123.0 gr. The projectile appears very similar to the Nosler Custom Comp’s I’ve shot (1000’s) and the Ogive is definitely further forward than the ELD-M. This suggests an inferior BC to the ELD, but range day will yield more data.
Available at $1.05 per round ($0.85 on sale), the Hornady Black’s 123 ELD-M projectile is noticeably sleeker, with what appears to be a Hybrid Secant Ogive. This translates into a relatively high BC, advertised by Hornady at a realistic .255 G7. It is noteworthy that Hornady has been using Doppler Radar for the last few years, which has provided them with remarkable capabilities to observe external ballistics and in determining actual BC.
For the direct comparison, I randomly selected 10 rounds of each and recorded COAL, BTO, Concentricity, Bullet weight and Charge weight. (For the last two, I only pulled a single sample of each.)
First, the glamour shots…
Here are, left to right, the now discontinued 123 Amax, the 123 ELD-M and the 123 HPBT.
Note the darker “Heat Shield” tip of the ELD, and the more pronounced Ogive of the BTHP.
IMG_2845.jpg
Both the ELD and the BTHP weighed in at exactly 123 grains.
Next, I examined and weighed the powder charges. I first noticed that the powders look to be the same, based on appearance. The American Gunner had a charge of 29.8 gr and, interestingly, the Hdy Black a charge of 28.8 gr, one full grain less. Chronograph testing to follow...
Below are the two samples, with an inset of a sample of CFE223 for contrast.
IMG_2839 copy.jpg
I noticed that the CFE looks more uniform than the powder in either of the two Hornady loads, so I suppose the only thing I can conclude is that we can confirm what we probably already knew, and that the powder is not likely CFE223.
Finally, there is the length and concentricity data.
The Base To Ogive (BTO) was determined with the Hornady Bullet comparator, using the #5 (260) bushing.
Based on BTO, both the BTHP and the ELD-M were seated very consistently. COAL? Not so much, but well within SAAMI specification and almost .010” less that “magazine length” of 2.250”. All measurements are in inches.
American Gunner | Black ELD M | |||||
BTO | COAL | Conc. | Sample | BTO | COAL | Conc. |
1.703 | 2.242 | 0.001 | 1 | 1.666 | 2.242 | 0.002 |
1.703 | 2.247 | 0.001 | 2 | 1.666 | 2.242 | 0.003 |
1.703 | 2.243 | 0.001 | 3 | 1.666 | 2.243 | 0.002 |
1.703 | 2.242 | 0.0035 | 4 | 1.666 | 2.243 | 0.0035 |
1.702 | 2.240 | 0.002 | 5 | 1.666 | 2.243 | 0.0035 |
1.702 | 2.243 | 0.002 | 6 | 1.666 | 2.243 | 0.0035 |
1.702 | 2.244 | 0.003 | 7 | 1.666 | 2.244 | 0.003 |
1.702 | 2.243 | 0.001 | 8 | 1.666 | 2.244 | 0.003 |
1.701 | 2.242 | 0.003 | 9 | 1.667 | 2.243 | 0.002 |
1.701 | 2.243 | 0.004 | 10 | 1.667 | 2.244 | 0.002 |
1.702 | 2.243 | 0.002 | Average | 1.666 | 2.243 | 0.003 |
0.0362 | 0.000 | -0.001 | Variance | -0.0362 | 0.000 | 0.001 |
The real eyebrow raise comes when you look at the concentricity numbers. The so-called everyday ammunition is actually a bit straighter than the Black ammunition. Curious, I checked the remaining ten rounds from the same box of Black and found similar results. The only take away I have from this, is that the use of the ELD-M bullet used in the Hornady Black does not necessarily equate to “Match Grade” ammunition – just the use of some “match grade” components.
Weather permitting, I will be at the range, this weekend, with both the American Gunner and a chronograph. I’ll also shoot some more of the Hornady Black over the chrony for a MV comparison. We have steel plates out to 750 yards and, if freshly painted, I can get some drop data on both rounds to try and estimate the BC of these new BTHP’s. Or, Hornady could save me the trouble and just publish the data.
Just a final thought - when I read some people saying there is no 6.5 Grendel to be found, I have to think to myself "What dark closet are they searching in?" With no particular effort, I have 100's of loaded ammunition and thousands of components. And the selection only keeps getting better, thanks to the likes of Hornady, Federal, AA and the rest.
IMG_2826.jpg
Grendel Life is good and getting better!
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