Nosler 6.5mm 130 gr RDFs

[Sticks]

I have yet to shoot my latest batches. No time. Planning on this weekend. I have yet to shoot any for groups.

That long a jump to the lands is going to result in some seriously compressed powder at the charges that I am running.

Austin - I presume you are chronoing all of your development? Please post them with your groupings.

[Crusty]

Tom the velocity increase was due to the increased grip on the bullets. The longer the bullet is held by the neck, the more the case pressure builds and the final bullet velocity increases. Work hardened brass from many firings doesn't size to exact dimension as well as annealed brass because it springs back more after each sizing operation with the end result that the bullets often aren't held as tightly.

I've got an 18" Dez Arms Stainless match barrel. It's a good barrel but without a SAAMI chamber, so I measure and control my ammo's concentricity and I think that the lack of centering tapers in the chamber doesn't affect me. A chamber casting shows a reasonably even throat and uniform traditional rifling.

[AustinTom]

I have yet to shoot my latest batches. No time. Planning on this weekend. I have yet to shoot any for groups.

That long a jump to the lands is going to result in some seriously compressed powder at the charges that I am running.

Austin - I presume you are chronoing all of your development? Please post them with your groupings.

I haven't been doing much more development. Settled on the 26.9 gr AR comp load from post #168. I'm getting fairly consistent ~3/4 moa 5 shot groups and an SD of 3-5 every time I chrono it.

I do have some H4895 to do some experiments with but it's going to be a few weeks until I get around to it.

I am happy that the advertised BC was accurate, I'm getting about 200 more yards supersonic and .7 mil less wind at 1000. But, my barrel doesn't seem to like these nearly as much as it does SMK's.

[AustinTom]

Tom the velocity increase was due to the increased grip on the bullets. The longer the bullet is held by the neck, the more the case pressure builds and the final bullet velocity increases. Work hardened brass from many firings doesn't size to exact dimension as well as annealed brass because it springs back more after each sizing operation with the end result that the bullets often aren't held as tightly.

I've got an 18" Dez Arms Stainless match barrel. It's a good barrel but without a SAAMI chamber, so I measure and control my ammo's concentricity and I think that the lack of centering tapers in the chamber doesn't affect me. A chamber casting shows a reasonably even throat and uniform traditional rifling.

Interesting. I've always looked at annealing as a way to extend case life/keep the necks from splitting.

[Crusty]

It does that too of course because it reduces the work hardening of the brass, but work hardening also increases the amount of spring back during sizing operations and is detrimental to precision sizing of the neck. I've come to believe that consistent bullet release is a significant factor in small group size, and if every bullet seated doesn't feel the same on your press then your groups will likely suffer.

I just took an "H" drill bit and reduced the diameter of the cutoff shank to .2613" using a diamond bench stone, then I ground a cutting edge into it with a cutoff wheel on a Dremel and made myself a precision reamer to follow my mandrel neck expansion and precisely normalize the IDs of my necks. I'll mount it into my hand crank trimmer to insure that I ream on axis.

Onward through the fog.

[Sticks]

Once again I experienced and epic fail with the RDFs with equipment failure. All I have is velocity data for my efforts. I have wasted a large amount of money on these damn things.

Plus side, I am getting into the high 2600 fps out of my Howa with no flattened primers or sticky bolt. I did hit a peak of 2725 fps and an SD of 15.1 (avg 2697 - 32.4 gr. AA 2520) but the accuracy sucked from what I could tell, and those were a little spooky, very minor cratering but still rounded edges on the BR4 primers. That is a node where 31.8gr was avg. 2667 and SD of 10.3, 32.1gr avg. 2665 SD 16.2 Could not tell you how the groups were on those.

I do have and Lever load at 31gr that I will shoot for groups (2510 avg SD of 6 and looked good initially) and a 30.3 AA 2520 to test.

However, all said and done for the most part, I can not get these to group.

[Crusty]

Know what you mean Sticks. I think these bullets may be finicky to make them perform consistently well. I've found others that posted online about loading them and many are struggling to overcome fliers in otherwise not bad groups. I'm currently thinking consistent bullet release is essential to good groups so I'm getting progressively more obsessive about all of the factors which can affect it.

[centerfire]

Nosler is in my neighborhood and I can buy firsts and seconds any time I want...and a shipment of Lapua and Sierra bullets just got here.

[Sticks]

Know what you mean Sticks. I think these bullets may be finicky to make them perform consistently well. I've found others that posted online about loading them and many are struggling to overcome fliers in otherwise not bad groups. I'm currently thinking consistent bullet release is essential to good groups so I'm getting progressively more obsessive about all of the factors which can affect it.

At my shooting abilities, that is way more effort than I am going to put into my reloading. If I can not simply find a powder and seating that gets consistent .7 MOA, then I'll move on.

As it is, I may need to find a better press. I am having a hard time getting consistent sizing in my Lee Breech Lock. 1.217 is target, but I get 1.216 to 1.220.

My ladders for 130 ELD bore better fruit yesterday. 19 different 3 shot groups, and all but 4 were sub MOA. Other than severe Stonehednge syndrome (2 shots in a ragged hole, the third .7" away) I have 3 really good nodes to play with and velocities in the mid 2500s

[Crusty]

I use a Wilson caliber gauge when I'm sizing. I bump size because my cases are already fire formed to my chamber and then I drop each into the gauge and if it's not longer than my chamber+headspace then that case is good to go, without any measuring. I intentionally let them run around .01" longer than the gauge so that they'll chamber but not rattle around very much so that each bullet starts from nearly the same location in the barrel.

[Sticks]

I bump size .003 for 4 Howas in one set (1.212) and then two ARs with a significant difference in fired CL at 1.218 in Lilly, and 1.225 in Bart where 1.217 is the target that works in Lilly, but just barely.

I also size 300 - 500 per sitting.

[zzrguy]

Sat at my bench to day staring into space i have yet to load a single round of 6.5 and I'm not going to till I work threw the feed and ejection issues. But I do have a question are you guys set the length so they just fit and function in the mag or the stated COL.

[Crusty]

The RDFs have a long slender point on them and fitting in the mag is the limiting dimension, so you'll never get the ogive close to the lands like the bolt guys do unless you hand feed each round. Having said that, in one of my most recent studies I believe that I've found an accuracy node with the ogive .135-.140" off the lands and I'll be loading a batch in that range next. They fit in the mag with 20 thousandths to spare.

RDFs are tough. You might consider something like 123 ELD-Ms for your first load development instead. They can be made to perform sub MOA and you won't get discouraged if you start with them but RDFs could make you chuck it all and take up whittlin', drinkin' or both.

[zzrguy]

The RDFs have a long slender point on them and fitting in the mag is the limiting dimension, so you'll never get the ogive close to the lands like the bolt guys do unless you hand feed each round. Having said that, in one of my most recent studies I believe that I've found an accuracy node with the ogive .135-.140" off the lands and I'll be loading a batch in that range next. They fit in the mag with 20 thousandths to spare.

RDFs are tough. You might consider something like 123 ELD-Ms for your first load development instead. They can be made to perform sub MOA and you won't get discouraged if you start with them but RDFs could make you chuck it all and take up whittlin', drinkin' or both.

After reading all the issues you guys are haven with the RDFs I'll stick with SMKs for match grade loads. Now you stated these where blems what makes them blems and could that be causing the some of the issue.
I had bought 60gr SP blems from Midway to load in my 223 they turned out to be Hornadys they never grouped well but for plinking it was ok. I order some factory firsts later on and they would punch a ragged hole at 100yd. Later on I found a hand full of those blems on the my shelf and when I check them against the others there were some noticeably difference. Larger soft point, base slightly not square, and point not in true centerline to the base these bullets would shoot a under a 3in group at 100yds fine for plinking. That why I ask what the blemish is.

[Crusty]

I was able to get a sub MOA load from Nosler Custom Competition blems and they're inexpensive. No idea what the blemishes were but they performed for me anyway.

Of course SMKs are pretty much the gold standard and if you can't get them to perform to adequate accuracy then there's likely something wrong with your barrel. If I could afford them I'd use them.

Since I'm attempting to get to the 1000y range I need all the BC that I can get and I'm determined to make RDFs perform adequately because of the .615 BC. I think I'm gettin' there.