Anyone loading 120 gr ballistic tips ?

[Splatt]

Just getting started with my Grendel, and was thinking a 120 gr bt, might be a great all around bullet.
Gathering components up. Have 1x fired brass incoming, and bullets.
I have LOTS of primers, as I reload, but unsure of what powders to use for this bullet.
I'm using an 18" barrel.

Any load recipes out there ?

[LRRPF52]

120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip is one of the go-to hunting bullets for JD Jones of SSK Industries-one of the first adopters of 6.5 Grendel.

We have a lot of data for it in the Grendel Handbooks. We don't use recipes across rifles or recommend that approach, since you need to work up your own with a ladder, but there are many powders that you can use.

If it's for hunting, I would look at CFE223, LeveRevolution, BL-C(2), AR Comp, AA2520, H335, 8208XBR (don't exceed 28.5gr), and TAC.

If it were me, I would probably lean on CFE223 because I use that powder so much with all bullet weights in 6.5 Grendel.

Start a pressure/accuracy ladder at 29.0gr and work up in .3 gr increments with maybe 8 single loads of each incremental charge weight.

Pages 86-87 in Volume II have 25 different loads for the 120 Nosler Ballistic Tip ranging from 16-24" barrels, with 4 different types of primers.

10 of those loads are from industry sources like AA and Western Powders.

That bullet opens up really fast, so you don't need crazy mv with it to get the desired effect on target. An 18" Grendel pushing it 2400-2500fps is plenty for medium game within 300yds.

Figure in expansion threshold of 1800fps impact velocity and that the stated BC is a bit higher than the actual, and you have a good 300yd and in hunting bullet for an 18" Grendel.

The Hornady 123gr SST does about the same thing, for much less.

If you are going to pay for a premium bullet from Nosler, then the 129gr ABLR is the one to beat, with its very high BC and extremely low expansion threshold of 1300fps impact velocity.

[VASCAR2]

I think LRRPF52 might have meant Accurate 2520 (2250?) and another powder you can use is Winchester 748.

[tracker12]

Nice post LRRP. I agree with the 120 expansion. I did not like it in my 264 win mag. Slowed down it might work. I have a bunch lying around to try

[LRRPF52]

I think LRRPF52 might have meant Accurate 2520 (2250?) and another powder you can use is Winchester 748.

Correct. Thanks for the catch of that typo, which I have fixed. Good call on Win 748.

[LRRPF52]

Nice post LRRP. I agree with the 120 expansion. I did not like it in my 264 win mag. Slowed down it might work. I have a bunch lying around to try

.264 Win Mag really comes into its own with 140s going fast. 120 grain cup and core bullets are often not recommended for the 6.5 Magnum class of cases for typical hunting distances because they violently come apart within the first 2 inches of penetration, sending fragments off of the primary intended wound path. Some of the bullet makers specifically say not to use 120gr cup and core bullets within 200-300yds if mv is over 2700fps.

6.5x54 Mannlicher and 6.5 Grendel with 120gr cup and core are an ideal combination for hunting within 300-400ys, depending on the bullet.

I just saw the deal from Nosler on 120gr Ballistic Tips at $14/50, which is now in normal bullet cost territory.

[Splatt]

What deal from Nosler.
I have 748 on hand !
Data for it ???

[VASCAR2]

Hornady has loading for Winchester 748 in 9th addition. Recent Sierra has load data for Winchester 748 as Alexander Arms which is in a sticky at the top of the reloading forum.


I can PM some info if you can’t find it.


Here is a link to AA reloading data.

http://www.alexanderarms.com/images/pdfs/grendel_reloading.pdf

[Klem]

I prefer the 120NBT to the 123SST, only because it gives tighter groups from my barrel. At .458 its BC is lower than the 123SST so I'd definitely experiment with both bullets before settling on one.

I use 28.5gns/H4895. 2.244" OAL, CCI450 primers in Lapua cases.

H4895 fills the case at that OAL to 100.4% capacity. Haven't used any other powders with it so cant comment other than say 8208 is a little fast for 120gns and above.

[LRRPF52]

I think the stated BC of .458 is a bit inflated, as the 123gr SST is right there at .463 and has a much longer boat tail and more aerodynamic ogive. I'm thinking the G1 BC is more in the high .3s, maybe low .4s.

Dating back to the earlier days of the forum, I noticed a lot of people stating that they had excellent accuracy results with the 120gr Nosler BT.

Shooter's Pro Shop (Nosler discount store) has them for $14.25/50, which is a great deal for that bullet.

http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosler-products/nosler-blemished-2nds/nosler-blemished-bullets/nosler-6-5mm-120gr-ballistic-tip-blem-50ct.html

[LRRPF52]

Just ordered some of those 120gr Ballistic Tips and 130gr RDFs for future testing and to add to the 6.5mm projectile collection (already have 120gr BT of course, but not 130gr RDF).

[Texkitch]

Anyone tried the Nosler 120 E-tip? Looks similar to the ballistic tip but it’s lead free. I just ordered some blems for $17.45/50.

http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosler-products/nosler-blemished-2nds/nosler-blemished-bullets/nosler-6-5-120gr-e-tip-with-band-blem-50ct.html

[sneaky one]

Tex, Ricoshay and I did some testing with the E tip, and a couple other no leads, a few years ago. It should be posted up in the LFP projectile thread . He asked me to lighten them for gel testing.

For the Grendel, I had tested many lead free bullets since 2009. The 120 wt. doesn't get to the proper speed for decent expansions, at distance. When I went down to 105-100-95 grn. , then the true potential of lead free came alive.

I dropped a 280 lb. buck 2 years ago with a 77 grn. GMX that I lathed down. 3000 fps. from a 16" tube. Fist sized hole-26" of penetration through spinal column, top of lungs, etc. DRT. BTW THAT UPPER IS FOR SALE.

It's the one that I referred to as my, 40 watt range plasma rifle. at 21 yds., I trust it on all game except large bears. Gilding metal rocks. 95% copper 5% zinc. Ultra tough.

Short range hunts, inside 175 yds.,, the 120 E tip will take game with good shot placement, no problem.

An off shot, say high through the ribs with no organ damage- it will act exactly like a solid bullet. Not good.

Wanna try a few lighter LFP's? I was sent back about 60 extras from tests , recently. Just let me know in a pm.,, your shooting distances-avg.

I'd like to give 4-5 people on here a dozen to try. kilco & P. Jamie said they would try some. So I guess we are down to 2, or 3.

Active hunters only -please.

I have mailed a many bullets in last years on here. I know these bullets , I trust these bullets. Ill post a pic tomorrow. Decals keep us busy for now.

I have been in some small ideas, back and forth, with local Federal plant to make a 100 E tip load. The wheels turn slowly there........

I was also informed that they may make a Federal version of a LFP. It'll be a while........

[Texkitch]

Sneaky, thanks for the excellent info. I’ll check these for accuracy vs the Barnes 120, which I’ve found a pretty good load for my 16” AA using 30.2 CFE. The 100 E-tip sounds interesting for sure. I’ll be watching for it. So many choices........

[Klem]

Anyone tried the Nosler 120 E-tip? Looks similar to the ballistic tip but it’s lead free. I just ordered some blems for $17.45/50.

http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosle...blem-50ct.html

Given the 120NBT is my 'Go-to' bullet I might comment again.

Size/shape - With no lead the E-Tip has to be longer to be the same weight as the lead core 120NBT. The 120E-tip is 1.4" long, compared to 1.22" for the shorter 120NBT. This means it sits further into the case for the same cartridge OAL. For an AR mag this is is around 2.245" (depending on the inside length of your mags and chamber dimensions. Usually it's the inside length of mags which dictates the cartridge OAL and you end up with whatever jump-to-lands that gives you). On the Nosler website their loading page lists both bullets side-by side with the same recommended loads and velocities and this is potentially dangerous. I would ignore their loading page altogether.

https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/65-grendel/

Peak pressure - When you load a longer bullet into a case to the same OAL you displace more available powder space and this leads to higher peak pressures. The difference between the 120NBT and the 120E-Tip in a Grendel case is around 10,000lbs according to Quickload. For example, the same max load with the 120NBT will be fine whereas the 120E-Tip will blow the lugs off your bolt. You need to load lower powder charges with the E-Tip to keep the peak pressures the same. By my calculation this is about 1.5grains less for the E-Tip.

Bearing- surface. Nosler also cautions regarding the bearing surface of the E-Tip. Unlike Barnes who machine channels into their solid metal bullets to manage this Nosler merely cautions the user. There is less give when a solid metal bullet engages the lands of a barrel and this increases the friction. Again, you need to start your testing low and work up.

Powder - The Nosler chart is not only limited in powder choices but their test barrel is 24". If your barrel is shorter then even more reason to ignore their chart.

Availability. The E-Tip is not a mass produced bullet so if you work-up a load now it might not be available or at the same price down the track.

Accuracy - The Creedmore forum and Nosler themselves say the E-Tip retains 95% of its weight. This means it acts like a monolith in flesh. It's designed to expand at the tip but stay together as one lump. This may be what you want if you harvest meat and not just the antlers. On the downside it's ability to kill is less than the 120NBT so less forgiving with accuracy. If you are shooting paper or gongs this is a non-issue and precision or group size will be all-important. I don't know if there's an average difference in group sizes between the two bullets and only testing in your barrel will tell you that.

Blems - I would be cautious buying bullet blems for anything other than short range plinking. They may be fine but bullet imperfections and precision do not sit well together. A blem receiver, sure, but not bullets.

BC - The ballistic coefficient of the two bullets are different. The E-tip is longer so it has a higher BC, closer to the 123SST in performance. The listed BC of the 120NBT is .458 and the E-tip .497.


Back to the 120NBT...I have been using the 120NBT for some time now, with close to 2,000 through a 18.8" Lilja barrel. For a practical flesh bullet it gives the smallest groups of those I have tried.

Here is a test I am almost finished comparing crimping with neck-tension as to which gives the smallest groups. Each group is four rounds fired at 100yards from the bench, measured in inches and using the On Target app. I've been doing this for over a year now, a few groups every now and then when the wind is low. It looks like .004" of neck tension delivers better accuracy with this bullet in my gun, but not by much. In your gun it might be different. For me however, the 120NBT is an accurate and versatile bullet.