Hornady ELD-Match 140gr

[Sticks]

800 m/s with 140s in a Grendel. Damn impressive. With a DA of 5k for where I practice at is transonic at 1400y Liking the rest of the ballistics as well. Might have to give some N140 a try behind the 130's in the Howa's

[Second]

800 m/s with 140s in a Grendel. Damn impressive. With a DA of 5k for where I practice at is transonic at 1400y Liking the rest of the ballistics as well. Might have to give some N140 a try behind the 130's in the Howa's

My plan is to use the N540 to test the "lighter" 130gr bullets also. Will test 130gr ELD-M and also Norma 130gr GT.
But the 130gr bullets needs to fly pretty fast to (in theory) beat the 140gr ELD-M in windage if it flys at 800 m/s.

[LRRPF52]

Very nice report Second.

Just so everyone recognizes, he's doing this with a significantly longer COL (over 2.500") in a bolt gun.

I found that I could load the 140gr A-MAX to around that COL for the Howa.

N540 with the Lapua 144gr FMJ in the AR-15 maxes out at 27.8gr and 2.248" COL.

By moving the projectile into a more ideal bullet base-to-shoulder-neck junction, it opens up some case capacity for you.

On your 2nd pressure ladder, I think the results are trying to tell you something at 30.0 to 30.4gr, where we see the dip and then the departure from the trend line.

My guess is that this is somewhere around 60,000psi, but that's just a guess.

[Sticks]

I've got 1k of those 130 ELDs at home that I still have not developed a decent load for. I'll have to try at mag length though in my Howas (having the girls hand feed 6 rounds at a match is asking a bit much).

Once my 6.5 PRC barrel wears out in my MPA, I'll either get a blank coming and a new bolt head and have a long throat Grendel chamber cut, or have the old PRC barrel cut and chambered a couple inches shorter and use it. $$$

[Second]

LRRPF52:
I think you are quite right in your guess, and I have got more info backing it up I think.

I took a trip to the range yesterday and did a third test.
I focused on three loads based on the previous test.

My focus was 29,4gr and 30,0gr and 30,5gr.
I loaded up 5 loads with the focusload in the middle, so 2 loads lower and 2 loads higher, 1 shot per load and over the Magnetospeed. The speed on the load 29,0gr is from the 2 shots for CBS (Cold Bore Shot).
So the first string is from 29,2gr and up to 29,6gr.
The result is in this graph in the red line:
GR-KR 140gr ELD-M N540_3.JPG

All cases inspected both before and after firing.
On the lower string with the focus on 29,3gr there was no surprises. Except that I got 3 loads with the exact same speed.
On the middle string with the focus on 30,0gr ni surprises also, except a spike on the 30,1gr load.
But on the highest string with the focus on 30,5gr I blew a primer on the 30,5gr load. I went on and shot the two last loads and the primer looked OK on them. But wouldnt have shot them if I not done the previous test on higher loads with the primer from that test "OK" and no big pressuremarks.

So as you commented LRRPF52, the result probably started to tell me something.
I?m probably on high pressure here around 30,4-30,5gr.
I do not have QL but if someone would to check, it would be appreciated.

COAL for this round is 63,4mm (2.496")

[LRRPF52]

QuickLoad needs to be calibrated when looking for any relevant pressure data for 6.5 Grendel, so you might as well just use a pressure test system instead at that point.

Primers start blowing out somewhere between 65,000 and 70,000psi, closer to 70,000psi.

I would want to stay well away from that place, including considerations for temperature sensitivity, component variation (brass thickness/volume, projectile jacket thickness, primer volatility).

[Second]

Realized that with me blow a primer, I have pierced it with the firing pin. Not blown it out from the primerpocket.
All primers have been firmly attached in the case, even with the primer pierced.

So, blown primer might have been a bad word.

Still. The pressure might be high either way.

[Second]

Were on the range this saturday and got to test a load on paper.
Range was 300 meters (~328yrd)

Load is 29,3gr of N540.
Have previous tested this load with the chrono. Did 10 shots and the result was:
Av. speed: 754 m/s (~2473 fps)
SD/ES: 2/6 m/s
That test was with the YMIR muzzlebrake on it and the test on paper was done with the 42S suppressor.

Did a few 5-shot groups.
GR-KR 140gr ELD-M 29,3gr N540_1.JPG
GR-KR 140gr ELD-M 29,3gr N540_2.JPG
GR-KR 140gr ELD-M 29,3gr N540_3.JPG
GR-KR 140gr ELD-M 29,3gr N540_4.JPG


The second group was the best one and is about 45mm.
Had some flyers and had a hard time figure out why. Not much wind but that could be a factor for the horisontal flyers.
On the last group, the flyer to the left was a complete shooter error. With the finger on the trigger and a big move sent the shot downrange...

Will do more tests with this load before doing any changes.

[Second]

Have a upcoming match that will be on paper targets and range will be 600m.
I participated last year in this match with the Grendel and this 140gr ELD-M bullet. For that match, I used a really short, thin barrel.
The Krieger that I have now, give me a bit more speed and hopefully advantage on the longer range. Either way!

I tested this bullet and the N540 powder. Found a node in the testing and went on target for 300m.
The groups are shown here on the previous posts. Not very exited over the result, and got some flyers with no real explanation. After that test, I have focused on other bullets and testing.
But I can not really put aside that this bullet have great advantage over the lighter bullets when it comes to wind drift at distance. This bullet can go VERY slow and still beat the lighter ones. (And now I am referring to 108gr bullets).
My concern was the thoughts on the N540 powder. I have tested the N530 with other bullets and have really been struggling to get the bullets to shoot well with this N530 powder. So maybe this is the same problem with the M540 powder and the 140gr ELD-M...

This ended in me loading up a few loads with the N140 powder to see if I could see any changes. I have used this powder before with this bullet with great results, but again, the speedjunky in me got me testing the N540.

So.
The loads with the N140 was from 28.0gr and up to 30.0gr. Loaded in 0.2gr increments.
Temperature about +7C.
Here is the result from this first test:
GR-KR 140gr ELD-M N140. Test.1.JPG
I checked the cases and the feel of the boltlift after each firing, and when I got up to 29.2gr I felt a little heavy boltlift, and the ejector marks for high pressure started to show.
I stopped at 29.6gr. Here I got shafings on the case after the extractor and a very heavy bolt. Last two loads was not fired.
Little surprised over the speeds. Still got very high speed with this N140.

I will however go little lower on the loads.
Maybe there is a node around 28.0gr. Around 28.7gr might also be a node, but the focus now is to find the load that shoots the best groups. This bullet do not need super speed in my gun to outpreform the lighter ones.

[Sticks]

Bummer, that was a real smooth curve at 29.1.

[Second]

Bummer, that was a real smooth curve at 29.1.

Yes. I agree, bummer.

But this time will I put the loads on the safer side.
When I shot this bullet and powder in the other barrel, I used 27.8gr and it worked well.

There is only 0.2gr down to that load from the startload of this first test of 28.0gr.
Maybe the 27.8gr will be the load to use again.
Have loaded up the next ladder from 27.0gr up to 28.4gr in 0.2gr increments.
Will be back with results.

[Second]

Trip to the range last Friday to do the second ladder test with the 140gr ELD-M and the N140 powder.
The ladder started at 27,0gr and ended at 28,4gr. Loads increased in 0,2gr increments.

About +6C, 988 hPa, 52% humidity and at 300m above sea level.
3 shots with the start load 27,0gr for fouling and control of the chrono.
After that, in a slow pace, the result in a graph:
GR-KR 140gr ELD-M N140 Test 2..JPG
No problem with pressure or any sighs of that.
Got a bit sot on the cases but nothing else out of the ordinary.
Quite steady increase in speed up to the 27,8gr where it turned down a bit and then got back up again.
This load of 28,7gr with this bullet and powder was my best load in the other shorter barrel also. Is it a coincident?

Either way, I chose on the next test to load from 27,6gr up to 28,2gr and now in 0,1gr increments. To try and narrow down to a load that will be tested on target.
This third test was done yesterday.
+0C, 1020 hPa, 37% humidity and 300m above sea level.
Again, 3 shots for fouling and test. The jump with the bullet was increased a little to see if the sot would get smaller or go away. It got smaller, but still two cases was very dirty.
Test 3 here in the graph:
GR-KR 140gr ELD-M N140 Test 3..JPG
I still like the 27,8gr but also the little higher load 28,2gr looks interesting.
I will probably load 10 shots of each of the loads and test them in 5-shot groups on target. And also with the Magnetospeed so that I get some data. Will also increase the jump a little more in a test to see if I can get the sot to go away.

[Lemonaid]

Second, usually when I see soot on the case it's because of a low powder charge. Your starting charges/velocity is about where it maxes out on the load data I'm looking at so that's a bit of a puzzle.

[Second]

Second, usually when I see soot on the case it's because of a low powder charge. Your starting charges/velocity is about where it maxes out on the load data I'm looking at so that's a bit of a puzzle.

Yes. I agree on that soot is normally a indicator for low powder charge.
However, when I loaded for 6,5x55 and with the singlebased N160 powders from Vihtavuori, soot was a normal thing. Even in high loads. One solution was to seat the bullet deeper. This solution was to me the fix. No more soot.
But this was with the 6,5x55. Maybe not the same in the Grendel and N140 powder.

I know that higher loads might be the fix, but I had signs of high pressure in the higher loads, and I wanted to find a load in the lower range. At these lower loads, I still get the occasional markings from the ejector and cratering on the primers. And this is signs of high pressure. So I have both, soot and high pressure.

I have also done tests with a lighter bullet (108gr Scenar) and a singlebased N133 powder. I got both signs of high pressure and clear ejector markings on the cases, but also soot on the cases.

The strange thing is that when I did tests with the doublebased powders N540 for the 140gr ELD-M and N530 for the lighter 108gr Scenar, here was no signs of soot. So I guess that the N530 and N540 gives more pressure, but it turns out that the speed is not higher with those powders.

This is very confusing to me also...
So one test is to try more jump. If that do not work, then I will try something else

[Sticks]

That magneto speed is going to have an effect on the accuracy/shot groups unless you are running massive barrel, like a M24 profile or heavy Palma....or you have one of the spigot mounts to keep it off the barrel. If you are doing 10 rounds at your target value, 5 with the MS, 5 without.