Help, in a quandry

[Sinclair]

I must stop reading reviews! I was all set to go with either Sierra 107gr SMK or Lapua's 108gr Scenar match when I read a poster's favorite loads that said that the 120gr SMK was the way to go. Now someone says the Noslers are the cats meow while another poster loves Gerber's 120 match that beats everything else!

For the time being, I only want to punch paper, but i want the smallest groups possible out to 300 yards. The budget is very tight so I would appreciate some advice as how to proceed. I am an experience reloader, but only for hunting rifles where I did the pressure test up to max load, back off one grain or 2% which ever was less and accepted what I got. This loading for accuracy is totally new for me. My rifle is a CZ 527 Varmint in 6.5 Grendel. I have collected all the dies, Harnady cases, gadgets, and such in preparation. Last night I checked the distance to the lands with the Harnady gage, a 120gr SMK, and modified case. After I shoot the rifle I will send in 2 of my cases to be modified by Hornady for more accurate measurement. BTY the overall length to the lands came out 2.260 right on the money? That gives me no jump for Saami loaded ammo. Isn't that going to be a problem?

The suitable rifle powders that I have on hand are: BL-C(2), A2460, H335, and H4895. As the budget allows I will try some of the more popular Grendel powders, the ones that I have listed will have to do for now.

P.S. Yes, I can shoot out to 300 yards and beyond, enough said!

[Klem]

What works in my barrel might not necessarily work in yours. No one bullet stands out on the Forum as you know and again, it also depends on your barrel. Pick one and do some load testing.

[IescapedCali]

What fun you are going to have doing load development. This seems like one of the most FAQ on this section of the forum. The discussion of the “best bullet” seems a lot like the discussion of “the best dog”; it depends on factors that won’t be agreed-upon by a committee. Every barrel seems to enjoy something a little different, which is why you see so many different “best bullet” statements. What your barrel likes might shoot 00 Buckshot patterns in my rifle. I realize budget is a huge factor, so I would see which powder in your cabinet has available load data for the bullets you referenced (and any others you come across), and start working up loads for each. You don’t have to commit to 500 bullets at this point. A box of each is a good place to start. When you see what your barrel likes, you can make a bigger investment later.

[LR1955]

I must stop reading reviews! I was all set to go with either Sierra 107gr SMK or Lapua's 108gr Scenar match when I read a poster's favorite loads that said that the 120gr SMK was the way to go. Now someone says the Noslers are the cats meow while another poster loves Gerber's 120 match that beats everything else!

For the time being, I only want to punch paper, but i want the smallest groups possible out to 300 yards. The budget is very tight so I would appreciate some advice as how to proceed. I am an experience reloader, but only for hunting rifles where I did the pressure test up to max load, back off one grain or 2% which ever was less and accepted what I got. This loading for accuracy is totally new for me. My rifle is a CZ 527 Varmint in 6.5 Grendel. I have collected all the dies, Harnady cases, gadgets, and such in preparation. Last night I checked the distance to the lands with the Harnady gage, a 120gr SMK, and modified case. After I shoot the rifle I will send in 2 of my cases to be modified by Hornady for more accurate measurement. BTY the overall length to the lands came out 2.260 right on the money? That gives me no jump for Saami loaded ammo. Isn't that going to be a problem?

The suitable rifle powders that I have on hand are: BL-C(2), A2460, H335, and H4895. As the budget allows I will try some of the more popular Grendel powders, the ones that I have listed will have to do for now.

P.S. Yes, I can shoot out to 300 yards and beyond, enough said!

Buy some 120 Match Kings and use some of your BL-C(2) and 2460. 4895 lacks the bulk density to be a good powder for a Grendel unless you don't care about very slow velocities.

The 120's are a super bullet that is very forgiving in terms of seating depth, powders, and charges. They will be very consistent to 300 but they are not as good in the wind as the 107 or 123 Match Kings so I wouldn't shoot them competitively past 300 with a Grendel. I would shoot them at steel to 800 but that is about where they will be transonic.

LR55

[JASmith]

What works in my barrel might not necessarily work in yours. No one bullet stands out on the Forum as you know and again, it also depends on your barrel. Pick one and do some load testing.

What Klem said +1!

[Sinclair]

Thanks guys, I have a plan, any suggestions or comments would be appreciated? Load up each of the two powders suggested by LR1955 with the 107, 120 and 123 SMKs. If one of them does not work, I will move on to the Noslers or the Hornadys next ( they are cheaper than the Bergers!) By then I should be out of powder so I will get to start all over with some new powders! I can see a lot of miles on the 'ol SUV!

[LR1955]

Thanks guys, I have a plan, any suggestions or comments would be appreciated? Load up each of the two powders suggested by LR1955 with the 107, 120 and 123 SMKs. If one of them does not work, I will move on to the Noslers or the Hornadys next ( they are cheaper than the Bergers!) By then I should be out of powder so I will get to start all over with some new powders! I can see a lot of miles on the 'ol SUV!

SC:

If I were in your shoes, given my experiences in load development, I would use this first testing session to eliminate the combinations of powder and bullet that are obviously not working. It is not to refine anything. Only to find a true start point for further load development. Here is what I would do if I were you.

1. Define the standards of precision I need for what ever purpose I have for the ammo and rifle. My minimum standard is that the load will hold well enough for me to clean the target given I shoot well. So, if my X ring is one minute at 600, I want a load that will hold one minute at 600 for example. If a load achieves my standards, I won't mess with load development anymore. Done with it and won't do it again unless I think I need to.

2. I would select no more than two bullets and two powders at a time for testing. You will be shooting probably three different loads with each bullet and if you try to shoot more in one session, you probably won't be able to put the same amount of focus into things so you will leave the session unsure if those last test groups were good or not.

3. I would start loads using the middle of the load data for the bullet you are testing and go up from there. As you probably know, chances are your best load will probably be around 90 or 95% of what ever the max load is in your data. With the Grendel, most guys go up in .3 grain increments. I go up in .5 grain because of a number of reasons ranging from the accuracy of scales to a desire to be sure that variances in velocity are due primarily to powder rather than other factors. Given two bullets to test with two powders, come up with three loads per powder type and bullet type. I prefer to bracket things more than creep into them because it takes less time and uses less resources. My time is better spent in practice or competition than incessant load testing.

4. I am pretty strict about using five round groups when I test things. This is because of those five shots, you can afford to blow one and still get a result that you can use for decision making. Given two powders and two bullets, each with three loads for testing, and shooting a five shot string, you will end up bringing 60 loaded rounds to the range. That is 12 each, five shot strings. Advice -- do not try to test any more loads that day.

5. Have ten rounds of ammo to blast when you set up and before your run your tests. Inspect your gear with emphasis on ensuring optics are secure and functional! Use these ten rounds to fowl the barrel and for you to check that your position will hold up for your follow on testing. Also that your zero is good enough to be close to your aiming points -- which ought to be about two minutes if using an optic.

6. Shoot sustained fire cadence for each string. That means focus on sight picture and shot, breath, sight picture shot, etc. Do not shoot one round and look through a scope or shoot one round and let a barrel cool down. Shoot all five rounds focused on sight picture and shot. After your string, look all you want. Call your shots and given five shot strings, if you called a shot out and it WENT TO YOUR CALL, discard it.

7. Get your position set up again and dry fire a couple of times and shoot your next string. Etc, etc, etc.

8. Since you will be shooting a lot of five shot strings, a good idea is to have a sketch of your target at your bench so you can record what target you shot with what load. I know this lesson real well. He, he.

9. One string of five will allow you to eliminate loads, powder, and bullet combo's, leaving you with probably one load per bullet that shot very well. Those loads need to be re-shot to make sure they are good. And if you wish, you can tinker with them once you know they are already decent.

Bottom line -- when you finish your testing for that day, you will know with certainty what two or so loads you want to focus more detailed attention towards. I would reduce it to one load for each bullet.

LR55

[Sinclair]

LR55
Thanks for the detailed procedure. I have watched so many "load development" videos on you-tube and each guy has a gimmick that they use to get the "best" results possible.

[LR1955]

LR55
Thanks for the detailed procedure. I have watched so many "load development" videos on you-tube and each guy has a gimmick that they use to get the "best" results possible.

SC:

Its just general advice. All you are doing initially is filtering out loads that obviously aren't good so you can focus on ones that have promise.

Gimmicks are gimmicks. What I offered was a plan. Tedious, boring, but relatively efficient in finding a load to suit your purpose.

LR55

[Sinclair]

LR,
I have printed your procedure and high lighted the salient points. I will start prepping the brass while I wait for the 107 and 123s to arrive. Your method looks to be a big time and resource saver over some of the others. I got so confused between OCW and the ladder methods. Besides they require a LARGE amount of resources to arrive at a solution. One you-tuber seemed to be more sensible in that he, like you set a goal and when a load met that goal he called it good enough. Between scheduling trips to the range around my wife's ever changing work schedule and life's constant interventions, this load development thing could go on for awhile. Plus I have never shot the rifle to date so I do not even know how it is going to perform. I am so hoping for decent grouping, but I could be in for a big disappointment!

LR, thank you for the plan. Seriously, I was concerned over expending an obscene amount of time and money and not getting any good results. At least now I have hope.

[Popeye212]

I do what LR said except I work with one bullet at a time and several different powders. I don't have faith in 3 shot groups 5 is the minimum. After I have tried a good range of powders with it and I don't get what I want I move on. I am very particular about brass prep. Consistency pays off.

[JASmith]

Taken individually, three-shot groups are indeed not enough to get a decent picture of what a load is doing.

If, however, one is looking at several groups where just one parameter is changed with the same components, some insight can be gained. For example if one is looking at powder weight, plotting group size and centers for each of five different weights, it is possible to narrow to a half-grain or so where an interesting load might be found.

Groups of five or more shots, with the same plotting technique, can then be used within the narrower range.

[EZWIND]

I am pushing 120 grain noslers BT with 27g of benchmark out to 600 yards with 1.56MOA not changing anything yet.