Reverse Moscow Match

[RMiller]

Didn't know what else to call this. Haha.

Anyways, I took some 100 grain FMJ bullets pulled from Wolf ammo and loaded them in some Hornady cases.

I shot them with two different seating depths.

The first depth was approx 2.200" and the second at 2.210" or so. The die was ten thousands different, the only consistency I could muster.

At 2.200" O.A.L. the group was over 3".

At 2.210" O.A.L. the group was 1.6" which comes close to matching anything other bullet I have shot so far.

Loaded with 30.5 H335 and CCI 450 primers.

I noticed from pulling the bullets out of the Wolf ammo that the seating depths are all over the place and so is the neck tension. It has already been known that the powder charges are not very consistent either. I would guess that the bullet itself is almost the best part of the Wolf factory ammo.

Anyways here is what I got from two test lots of ten rounds each.

[bj139]

I am pretty sure Sticks tried this before.
Maybe test seating depth on the original Wolf cases and bullets by pulling out a bit?

[RMiller]

The original cases were coming apart at an alarming rate so I just went ahead and pulled all the bullets.

I am glad to see they are usable.

[LR1955]

Didn't know what else to call this. Haha.

Anyways, I took some 100 grain FMJ bullets pulled from Wolf ammo and loaded them in some Hornady cases.

I shot them with two different seating depths.

The first depth was approx 2.200" and the second at 2.210" or so. The die was ten thousands different, the only consistency I could muster.

At 2.200" O.A.L. the group was over 3".

At 2.210" O.A.L. the group was 1.6" which comes close to matching anything other bullet I have shot so far.

Loaded with 30.5 H335 and CCI 450 primers.

I noticed from pulling the bullets out of the Wolf ammo that the seating depths are all over the place and so is the neck tension. It has already been known that the powder charges are not very consistent either. I would guess that the bullet itself is almost the best part of the Wolf factory ammo.

Anyways here is what I got from two test lots of ten rounds each.

RM:

When I did this with some Wolf MPT six or eight years ago, I found the powder weight to be as uniform as any factory load. I would accept it for any shooting purpose.

I found the 120 grain MPT bullets to be undersized with a bit more weight variance than I would like.

So, did you weigh out about twenty rounds of that stuff?

LR55

[RMiller]

I did not weigh them out. I figured that grabbing them at random would give me an overview of performance and not just best case scenario.

They will give me some good steel ringing ammo without split cases.

[Sticks]

Did the Moscow Match in depth... 700 rounds worth.

...
I noticed from pulling the bullets out of the Wolf ammo that the seating depths are all over the place and so is the neck tension.

Never did check OAL, I doubt it was that bad.

Factory ammo has a tendency to be pretty consistent, unless you are talking +/-.0025.

Absolutely correct on neck tension. Lots of variation there. They joys of working with steel. Too much tensile strength. Wolf probably has one or two stamps that are a touch off.

It has already been known that the powder charges are not very consistent either.

Quite the contrary. Wolf ammo was/is very consistent, and as consistent as lot# to lot# of any other ammo. I had 2 different lots that I was working with, years apart because I had two different powders (it was known that they changed powders).

I would guess that the bullet itself is almost the best part of the Wolf factory ammo.

For you and your rifle - which we have established that yours is on the outter limits of spec, or you just got a bad lot of Wolf Ammo. I can not remember if you tried that ammo in a different barrel or not.

Anyhow, there is nothing wrong with the cases, primer or powder. It is quite good out of 3 rifles (2 ARs and 1 Howa Bolt Action) that I have used it in, and my tests yielded consistent .5 groups (I am on the last 80 rounds of 700), and my Howa Bolt Action loves it, and prints .3" groups. Wolf case, primer, and 28.2gr (IIRC - do your own tests at your own risk) of Wolf powder pushing a Hornady 123gr ELD bullet.

Attached image has two blinds. 5 round Wolf factory, 5 round Hornady Factory, then my tests.

Moscow Match 1 MOA.jpgMoscow Match 2MOA.jpg

The only problem with Wolf ammo is that damn .262 bullet that we are shoving down a variety of different rifling cuts that are supposed to have a .264 bullet in it. Wolf bullets only perform well out of one cut, the standard button button cut 1:7.5 or 1:8. And by well, 1 inch groups (median is probably 1.5). Some get lucky and get a barrel that likes it and managed consistent .9 groups with it. Some and Lucky being the key words here.

I am pretty sure Sticks tried this before.
Maybe test seating depth on the original Wolf cases and bullets by pulling out a bit?

This I did do. Third group in first pic above. Pulled, verified the charge weight, stuffed the bullet back in...10 rounds. That was a train wreck. 4" group. You either shoot Wolf ammo as is, or toss the bullet. It must need that Eastern European air to properly combust the powder under the OEM projectile. You break the seal and it's junk.

RM:

When I did this with some Wolf MPT six or eight years ago, I found the powder weight to be as uniform as any factory load. I would accept it for any shooting purpose.

I found the 120 grain MPT bullets to be undersized with a bit more weight variance than I would like.

So, did you weigh out about twenty rounds of that stuff?

LR55

Wow. I thought he Gold/MPT was the stuff to be had, and made many people upset when it was dropped (well, recalled and never to be seen again). Might be thinking of another brand.

RMiller - If you did get a lot of bad ammo, and are choosing to finish them off. I would pull the bullets and toss them, put all the powder in a proper container, then do some load development using Hornady cases and CCI BR, 450, or 41 primers with the Wolf Powder. Use some 90-107 grain ELD or SMK, and start at 26.5 grains (I'm thinking that Wolf factory was 29.?) and work up in .2gr increments over a chronograph and inspecting cases for pressure signs and watching for velocity jumps of more than 30 fps for pressure spikes. You might be able to sell the primed cases in the equipment exchange. I would disclose your experience and measurements of the OAL and DIA at the mid point in the case.

[bj139]

I am pretty sure Sticks tried this before.
Maybe test seating depth on the original Wolf cases and bullets by pulling out a bit?

In my second sentence I meant it might be good to try increasing the COAL by pulling the original bullet out of the case a bit.

[Keef]

RMILLER: It looks like what you're doing is working. Keep up the good work and please keep us informed once you try a larger sample size.

[RMiller]

I did use that Wolf ammo in both of my rifles. I actually split more cases in the Classic barreled rifle.

I did pull all the bullets from the last of my Wolf ammo.

I tossed the powder and the cases and kept the bullets.

The bullets are as good as anything I have used so far in the "might be a Shilen barrel" so all is well. I will use these bullets for letting the kids shoot steel and if they want to use that rifle for deer hunting I can load some Speer Gold Dots for it or just buy a box of Hornady Black.

It is not a total loss and actually I don't think it is much of a loss at all.

I have new Hornady brass to load up some hunting ammo for my Classic barreled rifle and it likes 100 TTSX bullets.

[RMiller]

As far as actual Moscow match loading I think I will leave that to Sticks.