-
-
Roger that. You are not a competitive shooter. Nor a hunter either or you would have said so.Originally posted by Mark611 View Post
With all these "results that go beyond what most people can achieve due to their lack of knowledge", you have nothing to prove your results have one iota of meaning in any practical scenario so they will be questioned by guys who are still in the arena of competitive shooting and or hunting.
Anyway, I certainly won't get in your way but I certainly will question you if I think you are wrong.
LR55Comment
-
+10 on the popcorn and roger for '55 and Klem... must be about time for this movie to roll the credits...LOL!!!"Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"Comment
-
It's hard to hear but I can just make out the fat lady singing in the back ground lol.Originally posted by grayfox View PostComment
-
-
Personally, I would just like to see some verified targets, and the rifle(s) that he is shooting, with the loads. Also his equipment and techniques.Comment
-
lee pistol/ strait wall rifle round dies are good to go. for a bottle neck pick hornady or rcbs for economic or redding n forester if you have deep pocketsComment
-
Just a quick question for LR55 and all of you saying you are still in the competitive shooting game... Is it your opinion that just because you shoot in competition yours are the only acceptable ways to load? Yeah I know 611's process may not be for everyone, but that does not mean his are wrong either... He and I have had many discussions about bolt gun and semi reloading... And there are things I do when I load bolt guns that I don't, and would not do when loading semi's...For instance, I would not turn necks on a semi... But one thing I don't question is his results, I have stated in other threads I have witnessed too many times the groups he is able to produce... one does not need to be a national champion or participate in competition to read about and put into practice some of the shared knowledge of those that are... hope y'all enjoyed the show...Comment
-
rb:Originally posted by rbshoots View Post
I never said I questioned his results, I only asked him to give us the mean and deviation based on numerous groups shot with his specialized bolt rifle. I fully understood he shot a bolt rifle and it wasn't a Grendel.
I do question technocrats who are fixated on the micro at the expense of reality. When a guy with no 1000 yard experience at all posts that a cartridge with some minute amount of run out equates to a dispersion of one inch at 1000 yards, I will question his experience. He may be technically correct but I bet there are about five or six hundred other variables that outweigh this one a thousand times over.
So, if Mark611 decides to post some other trivia that is theoretically true but absolutely impossible to prove in the environment, take my word for it, there are guys here who will call BS and do so with a lot less tact than I am doing.
Who would I trust more for advice on a hunting rig for hogs -- one of the semi professional hunters here or a technocrat with no hunting experience?
Who would I trust more to give me advice on a F Class rifle and cartridge for 1K yards? An experienced and competitive F Class shooter or a weekend shooter who shot some decent groups at 200 yards?
Pretty simple for me.
LR55Comment
-
Which is kinda my point... 611 has known people who were competitive shooters, won many competitions, I personally didn't know them all that well but saw the trophy's and other acknowledgements of their success... unfortunately they are no longer with us... The internet is just chock full of information, as are books and articles written by well known and respected shooters... so enough info to get one started on the path are there... Most shooters I know are just like sportsmen in any discipline, they are willing to get you started, but hesitant to share their little trade secrets, but as with anything else, you do enough of it, you figure things out. So I guess what I am saying, is one does not have to be a competitive shooter to have the knowledge or equipment to do so. And I personally would listen to shooters that I see produce consistent sub MOA groups, and then discard what would not work for me, but try and utilize or alter to fit my needs that which would. Yeah 611 does get very technical, and there is much debate amounst people who shoot both competitively and non competitively but who nonetheless produce outstanding results, as to whether all his methods are required or not. I do a fair amount of reading on some of the subjects, like turning necks or trimming meplats, pointing, and tipping... Just those two subjects alone are subjects that a wide variety of people have varying opinions on. Is it worth turning necks and trimming and pointing to gain 5% in BC on bullet? For most people I would say no it isn't, but there are folks who have done a fair amount of testing just these two areas and have concluded there is something to be gained if you shoot out beyond say 500 Yds. As has been pointed out, these methods of his are for bolt guns, and some of this, in my opinion, do not translate into semi reloading, or loading of all calibers regardless of action type. As you should well know, one should work their way out to distance... 611 is doing just that, I know because I frequently shoot with him and spot for him... As you can tell he is proud of his accomplishments to date, and he should be, and I have every confidence that as his rifle gets pushed further he will gets results. But that is just my .02 worth
Comment
-
methinks thou dost protest too much...
such extensive claims... yet still no pics or proof.
the question remains "where's the beef?"
611 has been asked several times to put up the proof, all we get instead is more lectures.
OP has gotten some useful info for his purposes and decisions in the early section. so we can dispense with all the rest of the blahblah and I, for one, wish him well in his journey into reloading. OP keep us posted, ok?
This part of the show, however, has gone long past its lawful life.
611/rbs if you do in fact have any actual proof to show, I recommend you start another thread to do so since this thread is not about you. Then you can talk to your heart's content.
I'm outta here, on to threads where worthwhile info is being discussed and presented."Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"Comment
-
RB:Originally posted by rbshoots View PostWhich is kinda my point... 611 has known people who were competitive shooters, won many competitions, I personally didn't know them all that well but saw the trophy's and other acknowledgements of their success... unfortunately they are no longer with us... The internet is just chock full of information, as are books and articles written by well known and respected shooters... so enough info to get one started on the path are there... Most shooters I know are just like sportsmen in any discipline, they are willing to get you started, but hesitant to share their little trade secrets, but as with anything else, you do enough of it, you figure things out. So I guess what I am saying, is one does not have to be a competitive shooter to have the knowledge or equipment to do so. And I personally would listen to shooters that I see produce consistent sub MOA groups, and then discard what would not work for me, but try and utilize or alter to fit my needs that which would. Yeah 611 does get very technical, and there is much debate amounst people who shoot both competitively and non competitively but who nonetheless produce outstanding results, as to whether all his methods are required or not. I do a fair amount of reading on some of the subjects, like turning necks or trimming meplats, pointing, and tipping... Just those two subjects alone are subjects that a wide variety of people have varying opinions on. Is it worth turning necks and trimming and pointing to gain 5% in BC on bullet? For most people I would say no it isn't, but there are folks who have done a fair amount of testing just these two areas and have concluded there is something to be gained if you shoot out beyond say 500 Yds. As has been pointed out, these methods of his are for bolt guns, and some of this, in my opinion, do not translate into semi reloading, or loading of all calibers regardless of action type. As you should well know, one should work their way out to distance... 611 is doing just that, I know because I frequently shoot with him and spot for him... As you can tell he is proud of his accomplishments to date, and he should be, and I have every confidence that as his rifle gets pushed further he will gets results. But that is just my .02 worth
You are his brother, correct?
I honestly have no clue what you are getting at. If you think for a second that he has the same credibility as Klem, Sticks, LRRP52 and other competitors and hunters here -- you are wrong. And yes, it is a matter of credibility.
I do not care how many 1/4 minute groups he has shot with his bolt rifle. He is the one implying that this is the norm, not the exception. He is the one arguing that some esoteric process he uses to reload is the key. When he can also produce some Regional or National Titles, most of us will take him seriously. Oh yes -- he has a habit of not responding to guys who have questions about his statements.
Until then, we wish him the best on his AR build and who knows -- maybe he can devise something innovative that takes the AR to the next level. But if he does nothing different than the other highly skilled AR gunsmiths here but comes back saying he is shooting a mean of 1/4 minute at 200 with his AR Grendel -- he either needs to prove it or he will face some serious skepticism.
And I am tired of this thread going through the same cycle of Mark saying something that brings questions -- that he doesn't answer -- then you come on and defending him. This is really annoying and this conversation has become useless. We have better things to do so I will lock the thread.
Mark needs to open up a new thread if he wants to go over his AR build. I think that will go way better for him than this one.
Now -- I have some training to do before my competitions this coming weekend.
LR55Comment
Tweet
Comment