Need advice on my groups?

[45C]

I just built a 6.5 G on a AP set, 20 inch CNA barrel. Cheap!

I loaded up 4 lots of each bullit and powder, 5rounds per lot.
123 Sierra MK
123 ELD-Match
V 530 powder.

2 best groups of each bullit were at 26.7 g powder( max load)

Problem is 4 rounds in each group was sub MOA and each group had a flyer, that opened the group to 2 MOA.

Thought it might be me but both groups were almost identical.

Any suggestions? Should I continue to work around this load?

Thanks

[Lemonaid]

There was another post on barrel break in procedure on the forum that linked to the Krieger web site. I found the information there very useful and interesting.
Check it out.

https://www.kriegerbarrels.com/faq#breakin

[NugginFutz]

A lot of folks don't realize that seating a round in the chamber by hand and seating a round when the action cycles can (and usually does) produce differences in POA/POI. Most AR's are real Shake n' Bake machines, with a lot of things moving around and aligning slightly differently, between each shot.

If you want a genuine apples to apples, shot to shot group analysis, do ONE of the following:

1. Get a Sled, a modified magazine which only allows a single round to be chambered. If you don't want to spend money on one, just use a regular empty magazine, but do not load any rounds into it.
2. Set your target up at 200 yards (100, if you can't find a 200 yard range). Set you scope's magnification to a level where you can clearly see your Point of Aim, but not high enough where you can see the hits.
3. Place each round in the open breach, resting on the sled / empty mag.
4. Chamber the round by pressing the bolt catch button, allowing the bolt carrier to ram it home.
5. Using your established routine, build your position on either bags or bipod and, when ready, break the shot. Don't look through the scope for your hit.
6. Wait one minute for the open chamber to cool. If the bolt did not lock back, stop and correct this issue before starting over at 2.
7. Repeat steps 3 through 6 for up to 5 rounds, using the exact same routine and point of aim.
8. Only after you've made the weapon safe and had a refreshing non-alcoholic beverage should you go check your target.

OR

1. Set your target up at 200 yards (100, if you can't find a 200 yard range). Set you scope's magnification to a level where you can clearly see your Point of Aim, but not high enough where you can see the hits.
2. Load 7 rounds in the magazine. 5 round Mag? Load all 5, but abbreviate the test after 3 rounds.
3. Chamber the 1st round, and fire it in a neutral area of the target or (preferably) into the berm.
4. Using your established routine, build your position on either bags or bipod and, when ready, break the shot. Don't look through the scope for your hit.
5. Wait for a solid 2 minutes to allow the chamber to cool. Do NOT open the breach or cycle the action. Either put the weapon on safe, or stay with it for the two minutes.
6. Repeat 4 through 5 for up to 5 rounds (3 if you are using a 5 round magazine), using the exact same routine and point of aim.
7. Only after you've made the weapon safe and had a refreshing non-alcoholic beverage should you go check your target.

At this point, you should now be seeing your hits clearly for the first time. If you resisted the urge to peek, you can seriously view the groups as reasonable and unbiased. Both of the above methods prevent first / last round variances in the way auto-loaders feed from changing the dynamics of the shot group. This will at least eliminate 1st round / last round "flyers" which can be attributed to this phenomena.

Bear in mind, though - some of us old-timers have actually developed an automatic 5th round flinch. In such cases, I recommend shooting the shots in reverse order.

[BCHunter]

Sorry to say there isn't enough information here, to do anything but speculate. It could be you, the new gun, your loading technique?
Do you have velocities for each lot? That would clarify if there was an issue with the loading.
Also picture of target would help more then picture of the gun.,nice looking rifle by the way.
Is the flyer the same number shot? First,last?

Does the gun do this with all ammo or just these reloads?
What is your average group size with this gun?

[45C]

This was the first batch of reloads put through the barrel. 40 rnds , 20 of each bullit. No other ammo used yet.
Using lapua brass , and trickler.
I’m waiting on my chrony to get here so don’t have that data .

The flyer in each group was an inch above the group.
I’m not sure but I recall it being the last rnd.

Should I use a slight crimp?

[BCHunter]

To determine if you need to crimp measure round feed it through mag, remeasure if it moved crimp. I haven't had to crimp any of my grendel loads yet. Using standard hornady dies, just got a redding's s bushing to control neck tension for fine tuning loads

[BCHunter]

I probably wouldn't introduce another variable unless the above test determines your bullets are moving in the loading cycle.

Double check everything is tight on the gun
Shoot some groups of factory, hornady black is considered standard accuracy load by many should do 1 moa.
Have a buddy shoot it, see if it happens for them.

Check your loading technique, are you tricking on a beam or electronic scale? Many electronics won't read trickling into the pan, you have to remove the pan trickle into it then reset the pan on scale.

[A5BLASTER]

I just built a 6.5 G on a AP set, 20 inch CNA barrel. Cheap!

I loaded up 4 lots of each bullit and powder, 5rounds per lot.
123 Sierra MK
123 ELD-X
V 530 powder.

2 best groups of each bullit were at 26.7 g powder( max load)

Problem is 4 rounds in each group was sub MOA and each group had a flyer, that opened the group to 2 MOA.

Thought it might be me but both groups were almost identical.

Any suggestions? Should I continue to work around this load?

Thanks

What is a 123 eld-x? Heard of the eld-m before and shoot it myself both in factory and handloads. Did hornady drop a new 123 grain pill I don't know about?

This is just my personal thoughts but the way I do things is shoot 200 rounds of factory ammo through it before ever working up a load.

That way I know the barrel is completely broke in.

Who is CNA? Never heard of them before.

Not to sound rude but it bares saying, it's a cheap barrel what it's giving you might be the best it can do.

[45C]

Getting factory 6.5 is not gonna happen as I live in rural NL, I could get some shipped in though.
I’m using a balance beam scale and the brass was new and untouched.

I’m going to loadi up 10 rnds per batch using 26.9 26.8 26.7 26.6 26.5.
See what happens.

I should point out , it’s cheap CNA barrel but still if not for that flyer, it was at about .8

[45C]

Canaidian National barrels.. $230 cad .. lol
And yes it’s ELDmatch .. not X
I got the barrel for $120 Cad , so I don’t expect much from it, just wanted to build a cheap 6.5 G to see if I like it.
I got $850 Cad into it.

So now that I know I do like it, I’m planning on getting an IBI barrel and a Geiselle SSP trigger.

I just want to play around with this barrel , just to see if I can get a cheap barrel to shoot.

[BCHunter]

Check the crown on the barrel, some have reported improvement after crowning their problem barrel.
Thought eld-x was a hunting version of eld-m tougher jacket.

[Mad Charlie]

"Thought eld-x was a hunting version of eld-m tougher jacket."

That has been my understanding also, just haven't found any...

[CaptnC]

There is another thread about this same issue.

I have researched this issue (because you are not alone having this issue). One thing I found has been poor union between the receiver and the barrel extention.
I bought a Wheeler tool to clean up the face of the receiver.

The two receivers I've done so far have never been fired so I have no base line on how they shoot, but I shouldn't have the normal Grendel flier.

Any way that union seems to be the most common cause for fliers.

[Gusmeister]

Sorry to say there isn't enough information here, to do anything but speculate. It could be you, the new gun, your loading technique?
Do you have velocities for each lot? That would clarify if there was an issue with the loading.
Also picture of target would help more then picture of the gun.,nice looking rifle by the way.
Is the flyer the same number shot? First,last?

Does the gun do this with all ammo or just these reloads?
What is your average group size with this gun?

IMO BC has nailed it. In other words you may have an ammo problem, a rifle problem or a shooter problem. Maybe a mix of all 3. Some decades ago I was an amazing shot with a revolver. I mean take your breath away amazing.... 5 out of 6 rounds . Never outgrew it. Over time I just got worse. My 2 cents is to shoot more. Establish a norm. Determine what you can do on demand. Then the numbers will start to explain themselves. Besides, 5 shots is simply the minimum number of rounds that will give you an idea of how you/rifle/cartridge are shooting. It takes a lot more rounds (or a lot more 5 shot groups) to really be definitive about accuracy. Crazy at it sounds, this really is the fun part of reloading & shooting. Good luck!

[45C]

Well it appears the Hornady 123 ELD-M
Are the one.
I loaded 10 in the mag, fired 3 to foul the barrel , then 5 for the group.
It pretty much duplicated the previous group I had , with the flyer.

The wind was up today as well,and it’s a cheap barrel lol

So what ya think? Do I make the team?