Hornady brass fail

[Mad Charlie]

I emailed Hornady, they replied and asked for pictures. I've not heard back. As soon as I do, I will update.

Exactly right thing to do, they may not even be aware of any issues and you were lucky (?) enough to catch a problem for them. They may also want you to send your sectioned case. Thanks for keeping us updated.

[tucansam]

Exactly right thing to do, they may not even be aware of any issues and you were lucky (?) enough to catch a problem for them. They may also want you to send your sectioned case. Thanks for keeping us updated.

Got an RMA from Hornady and am sending in all the bad cases, along with a few good ones, for their analysis. Right now they are saying headspace.

Which is bad, because its either my PF/Criterion barrel with PF bolt, or 12" group buy Faxon with group buy bolt.

[tucansam]

Its the brass.

Had 50 rounds of American Gunner left. Fired 25 through my 12" Faxon. Fired 25 through my 20" PF/Criterion.

Exact same case defect previously seen, on brass that came out of both guns.

[Clays23]

[mtnlvr]

So if it's the case, are you guys scrapping it out when you cones cross one?

[tucansam]

So if it's the case, are you guys scrapping it out when you cones cross one?

I will be, yes.

Maybe its a good lesson for me to learn, but I usually don't start inspecting the inside of my cases until 4-5 reloads, depending on caliber. It took a while to either dental pick the inside, or examine with a flashlight, every single piece of de-primed cleaned brass that I had. I'll probably pull 50 cases and work with them exclusively for reloading, to see if the problem repeats, and to see how much life expectancy I can get. I didn't count them when I sent them off, but I bet I sent 50 or more bad cases in for Hornady to check out. Based on the number of boxes and cases of ammo I've shot through the two Grendels, I'd say 10% showed the failure, more or less.

I emailed Hornady right after I posted my last update, and my brass should have been delivered to them this past week. I know they're busy, so I'm not expecting anything soon. But I'll update the thread when I hear something.

[mtnlvr]

Good to know.

Did you say how / where these were from? Were they purchased in bags of 50, bulk Midway 250,etc?

I'll have to pay attention and see if any of mine show similar marks.

[NugginFutz]

American Gunner ammunition is/was available exclusively from Sportsman's Warehouse in cans of 200. I remember recently reading where it is now available at another online source, but the name eludes me, at the moment.

[tucansam]

The 50 cases that I just fired, 25 in each gun, came from my last remaining American Gunner 200 round ammo can from Sportsmans.

I had fired a 200 round can previously as well. Also, several boxes of Hornady Black and Hornady SST. I did not keep track at the time, but will in the future.

Something changed at some point along the way, though, because some of the Hornady brass looks almost like its got crimped primers. The "Hornady" font on some of the brass is also subtly different. So I'm not sure if I'm looking at different lots or just older vs newer brass. The SST was bought several years ago, so that could be it. The Black and American Gunner were bought last year.

[tucansam]

Hornady (finally) replied after several more emails, and had this to say:

--
Hornady Support commented at: 06-21-2019 03:19
Mr. Smith, we apologize for the delay in getting back to you. In evaluating the cases you submitted, we have determined that this is a tooling mark (cosmetic) occasionally left from the manufacturing process. It does not compromise or weaken the case in any way. We will return the case that you have submitted. We appreciate the opportunity to look into this for you. If we can be of further assistance, please let us know. Thank you
--

I have several issues with this.

First of all, "tool marks" should not be deep enough, nor wide enough, for me to be able to fit the tip of a dental pic in them. Right? Second, other people would be seeing the same "tool marks." I would assume.

[FLshooter]

When I first got into the 6.5 Grendel Caliber,I purchased 5-100 rd bags of new Hornady brass from Midsouth shooting supplies.I resized them all and proceeded to load.
I had lines on the outside of the bottlenecks of some of the brass.Not the inside like you.But,nevertheless,a concern.It happened to maybe 50 cases out of 500.They came out of the same bag.
I showed them to a local gun shop owner,who specializes in AR builds.He told me it was something to do with the annealing process or lack there of by Hornady.
Either way,it never happened to other brass.I was able to get 5-6 reloads from that brass till the primers would no longer stay in.
Anyway,I always try process of elimination.I shoot different brass through each barrel.And figure out what’s going on.

[Herzo]

I have a 6.5G and a 6mm Predator from AR15 Precision, both with type 2 bolts. The 6.5 seems to exhibit .013" stretch over the factory loaded Hornady. I also find a similar stretch with Starline brass in the Predator, Having experienced case separations in the predator and incipient separations in the Grendel, I am scrapping all of the hornady and any of the Starline with more than 2 firings. I machined a gage which aligns on the o.d. of the neck and rests on the shoulder giving me a standard to compare future reloads. I have just ordered 100 rounds of Lapua brass and will be minimizing the setback on future resizing.

[grayfox]

I have a 6.5G and a 6mm Predator from AR15 Precision, both with type 2 bolts. The 6.5 seems to exhibit .013" stretch over the factory loaded Hornady. I also find a similar stretch with Starline brass in the Predator, Having experienced case separations in the predator and incipient separations in the Grendel, I am scrapping all of the hornady and any of the Starline with more than 2 firings. I machined a gage which aligns on the o.d. of the neck and rests on the shoulder giving me a standard to compare future reloads. I have just ordered 100 rounds of Lapua brass and will be minimizing the setback on future resizing.

This excessive stretch is one of the reasons I ditched my Arp barrel, the chamber might be quote/unquote "in spec" but the stretch was too much stress on cases for me, and too much different from my other barrels. My brass is much happier now.

[Klem]

I have a 6.5G and a 6mm Predator from AR15 Precision, both with type 2 bolts. The 6.5 seems to exhibit .013" stretch over the factory loaded Hornady.

Herzo,

Looking at the chamber and cartridge blueprints for the Grendel, SAAMI permits a variance of 0.01" in chamber length; Min 1.2201" to a Max 1.2301" when reaming a chamber.

On the same blueprint the cartridge length is listed as 1.220", minus .007".

In theory then, a deep chamber reamed to SAAMI Max 1.2301" could fire a cartridge of only 1.213" and still be in spec. That represents .017" of acceptable stretch. Any more would be out of spec, although there will be a little more stretch available before cases start rupturing.

In my Lilja barrel from the original Group Buy unfired Lapua cases stretch 0.016" on their first firing. From then on it's a .004" bump for every subsequent firing. While it's a long first stretch and right on the permissible limit it hasn't seemed to have affected case life. Lapua cases just 'keep on keeping on'. There has never been a separation and they show no signs of splitting.

If you have had case separations in the Grendel it was either a stretch that has exceeded .017", or they are being bumped back too far and it has been a gradual (incipient) situation of multiple long stretches finally leading to separation.


Ref: SAAMI blueprint.

[NugginFutz]

Herzo,

Looking at the chamber and cartridge blueprints for the Grendel, SAAMI permits a variance of 0.01" in chamber length; Min 1.2201" to a Max 1.2301" when reaming a chamber.

On the same blueprint the cartridge length is listed as 1.220", plus or minus .007".

In theory then, a deep chamber reamed to SAAMI Max 1.2301" could fire a cartridge of only 1.213" and still be in spec. That represents .017" of acceptable stretch. Any more would be out of spec, although there will be a little more stretch available before cases start rupturing.

In my Lilja barrel from the original Group Buy unfired Lapua cases stretch 0.016" on their first firing. From then on it's a .004" bump for every subsequent firing. While it's a long first stretch and right on the permissible limit it hasn't seemed to have affected case life. Lapua cases just 'keep on keeping on'. There has never been a separation and they show no signs of splitting.

If you have had case separations in the Grendel it was either a stretch that has exceeded .017", or they are being bumped back too far and it has been a gradual (incipient) situation of multiple long stretches finally leading to separation.


Ref: SAAMI blueprint.

Klem. That cartridge length is 1.220 inches -.007 inches. Not plus or minus.

Might want to reconsider your calculations?