problem FL resizing starline brass

[SCJim]

this afternoon I attempted to break in my new Sanders Armory upper and it was a bit of a comedy of errors, dropped a screw into gravel, loose scope and rifle not cycling properly. I called Sanders when I arrived home to discuss the cycling issues. When the subject of my brass came up I told them I used Starline and he said that his barrel tester had problems with Starline resizing properly. After concluding the phone call I attempted to size one of the cases I had fired and as he had said the base refuses to size, even with a camover the base is about .002 too large. This is using a basic Lee die. I asked the owner if he had tried RCBS small base dies and he said they did solve the problem for him. I just ordered 200 Hornady brass but am still going to keep the fired Starline until I get a RCBS small base and try it myself.

Oh and the cure for the cycling issue was simple - shoot some dirty ammo through it. So I ordered 200 Wolf today also

I am guessing this has to do with the reamer used on these barrels. Anyone else have problems with Starline brass resizing? if you are using Starline what sizing dies are you using? I am going to build or buy a bolt gun in Grendel also so a Redding S bushing is in my future but that is in the future

[Popeye212]

I haven't had the problem you are describing I am about to go to the Redding type S dies mine are getting sized TOO much. I am using the Forster full length sizing die.

[SCJim]

I haven't had the problem you are describing I am about to go to the Redding type S dies mine are getting sized TOO much. I am using the Forster full length sizing die.

if switching to Hornady brass does not cure the problem I will be going to the Redding also. I use the S bushings in 6 Creedmoor, .260 Rem and .223 and they are great

BTW after researching I don't think anyone makes a small base 6.5 Grendel small base die or at least I can't find at any at the major supply stores

[Popeye212]

if switching to Hornady brass does not cure the problem I will be going to the Redding also. I use the S bushings in 6 Creedmoor, .260 Rem and .223 and they are great

BTW after researching I don't think anyone makes a small base 6.5 Grendel small base die or at least I can't find at any at the major supply stores

I should have mentioned that there is nothing wrong with the Forster dies. It is just the case doesn't stretch that much and the body doesn't need to be resized every time. I will use a case gauge to check if the body needs resizing. Most of the time they only need the neck size. That is with this particular barrel.

[ricsmall]

Midway USA has a Small Base sst for 264LBC. Same cartridge, different chamber

ETA: sounds like oversized chambers on these barrels. I could be wrong but that’s the first I’ve heard that about the starline brass

[Popeye212]

Doubt that it's the brass but just my opinion and that ain't worth much.

[SCJim]

Midway USA has a Small Base sst for 264LBC. Same cartridge, different chamber

ETA: sounds like oversized chambers on these barrels. I could be wrong but that’s the first I’ve heard that about the starline brass

Thanks for the heads up on the die. I had the same thought on the chamber. I have no clue as to why Hornady/Norma will resize and Starline will not, but that is what the guy who builds them told me. Brass thickness maybe? First order is to going to shoot some Wolf through it to seal the gas block and get it to cycle right. I had to do that once with a .223 and it will stopped the leaks in that system, dirty powder does have it's uses. Once it settles in then try some Hornady hand loads. If the Hornady won't resize I will try the small base die. Last resort is return the upper or drop a Criterion on it

[LR1955]

this afternoon I attempted to break in my new Sanders Armory upper and it was a bit of a comedy of errors, dropped a screw into gravel, loose scope and rifle not cycling properly. I called Sanders when I arrived home to discuss the cycling issues. When the subject of my brass came up I told them I used Starline and he said that his barrel tester had problems with Starline resizing properly. After concluding the phone call I attempted to size one of the cases I had fired and as he had said the base refuses to size, even with a camover the base is about .002 too large. This is using a basic Lee die. I asked the owner if he had tried RCBS small base dies and he said they did solve the problem for him. I just ordered 200 Hornady brass but am still going to keep the fired Starline until I get a RCBS small base and try it myself.

Oh and the cure for the cycling issue was simple - shoot some dirty ammo through it. So I ordered 200 Wolf today also

I am guessing this has to do with the reamer used on these barrels. Anyone else have problems with Starline brass resizing? if you are using Starline what sizing dies are you using? I am going to build or buy a bolt gun in Grendel also so a Redding S bushing is in my future but that is in the future

SCJ:

Lee sizing die, eh? You don't say.... Never would have imagined....

Let me suggest you get the Redding sizer that uses neck sizing collets.

And, you do not need a SB die for the Grendel. Unless you like overworking the web of your brass for no reason. Or unless the chamber is out of spec and is expanding the web far too much. Common with M-1-A's so we used SB sizer dies when reloading for them. We got four or five shots from the brass but it would chamber and extract for those four or five shots. Grendel brass, chambers, and particularly chamber pressures are way different. You ought not to need a SB sizing die when loading for the Grendel.

I got a feeling that the barrel maker for Sanders is not cutting the chamber to SAAMI specs if he can't get Starline brass to size down so as to chamber and extract easily. Something is up that ain't good.

LR55

[SCJim]

SCJ:

Lee sizing die, eh? You don't say.... Never would have imagined....

Let me suggest you get the Redding sizer that uses neck sizing collets.

And, you do not need a SB die for the Grendel. Unless you like overworking the web of your brass for no reason. Or unless the chamber is out of spec and is expanding the web far too much. Common with M-1-A's so we used SB sizer dies when reloading for them. We got four or five shots from the brass but it would chamber and extract for those four or five shots. Grendel brass, chambers, and particularly chamber pressures are way different. You ought not to need a SB sizing die when loading for the Grendel.

I got a feeling that the barrel maker for Sanders is not cutting the chamber to SAAMI specs if he can't get Starline brass to size down so as to chamber and extract easily. Something is up that ain't good.

LR55

According to a savvy AR friend of mine the use and need for small base dies is fairly common in AR match rifles. I guess that's why they make them, shrug. He figures there is 99.9% chance the SB die will cure the issue. My big question is how does it shoot? If I think a barrel won't shoot the way I want it to I replace it before it hits 500 rounds anyway. I have 4 factory Savage barrels sitting a corner that I need to sell. I know Criterions and Shilens shoot but even a custom barrel can be bad, I had one and the manufacturer replaced it with the best barrel I have ever shot

BTW Lee's internals are some of the best in the business. I use Redding bushings myself most of the time but have shot matches using brass that was body sized then the neck sized by Lee Collet neck dies. Very concentric ammo. Lees biggest problem in my opinion is their lock rings, I replace them as soon as I buy them.

[grayfox]

SCJ, you need to listen to 55 and leave your "savvy" buddy to his own. JMO, but the guys on here know a heck of a lot more - shooting-wise and Grendel-wise - than the guy down the street.
Listen to whomever you want but you're passing up sound advice. On the Lee thing too.
Search the threads on here, your problems with Starline (I don't have any so no dog in the fight here) - I don't recall seeing anyone else having it, so... but up to you.

[ricsmall]

SCJ, you really shouldn’t need an SB die for the Grendel. What’s your web measurement pre and post firing? I’ve only used SB dies when reloading cases shot in an M240 or 249 that we’re severely expanded. I would do a chamber cast before buying SB dies. Chances are the chamber is on the large side

[Klem]

SCJ,

I haven't used a SB die since they were encouraged by manufacturers (like Lee) in the 1980's. Since then people have figured out that you don't need to squeeze the life out of a case to make it reliably feed in an auto-loader. I would only use one if the chamber has been deliberately machined to be tighter than SAAMI.

If your chamber is on the large size you definitely shouldn't need an SB die. In fact all you would be doing is squeezing cases from too big, to too small. Your brass won't last a week.

How much does your brass stretch in that chamber (diff between a fired and unfired case from the datum point to base)? What about the diameter of a fired case down at the web?

Listen to 55'....Those Lee dies may be fine for longitudinal headspace but the mouth may be too generous and leaving cases fatter than they should.

[centerfire]

I have small base dies collecting dust but there's brands like Dillon that are pretty much small base without the name. I wouldn't trust anything Lee makes without verifying it first hand. I prefer Forster dies and is what I use.

[Jakal]

I always break in with factory ammo to verify function. Then I will build a few pressure test rounds to see how everything works.

Try some factory ammo first, resize it and see if you have the same problem. Do the cases fit in a LE Wilson case gauge?

Sounds like an out of spec large chamber.

[LR1955]

According to a savvy AR friend of mine the use and need for small base dies is fairly common in AR match rifles. I guess that's why they make them, shrug. He figures there is 99.9% chance the SB die will cure the issue. My big question is how does it shoot? If I think a barrel won't shoot the way I want it to I replace it before it hits 500 rounds anyway. I have 4 factory Savage barrels sitting a corner that I need to sell. I know Criterions and Shilens shoot but even a custom barrel can be bad, I had one and the manufacturer replaced it with the best barrel I have ever shot

BTW Lee's internals are some of the best in the business. I use Redding bushings myself most of the time but have shot matches using brass that was body sized then the neck sized by Lee Collet neck dies. Very concentric ammo. Lees biggest problem in my opinion is their lock rings, I replace them as soon as I buy them.

SCJ:

Just offering advice. SB dies don't cost much more but few who shoot Grendels ever reported that they were necessary to get the brass to chamber.

Use another sizing die and you may find the problem goes away. If not, the barrel maker who says that Starling brass doesn't work ought to know why. He is the one making the barrel that apparently doesn't chamber Starline brass but does chamber all other brands.

Body die is a good idea with the Grendel.

LR55