Lee Pacesetter die review

[SCJim]

SCJ:

I am sure that when you win the Nationals in F Class that Lee will give you a sponsorship.

LR55

Maybe but first I have to win a match at club level, last year was my first year competing and I managed one second place finish, a couple of times I came in dead last and for the most part I had a whole lot of middle of the pack finishes.

People who are too quick to blame their failures on the equipment will never improve their shooting.

Ever hear the story of George Farr ?

http://www.bobrohrer.com/sea_stories/end_of_an_era.pdf

It was a September afternoon at Camp Perry in 1921 and a
gentleman by the name of George R. Farr gathered his gear
and prepared to leave the firing line after posting a perfect
score in the legendary Wimbledon Cup Match… What's so
special about posting a possible at 1000 yards? Well, perhaps
you will better understand when you realize how he ran his
perfect string, and his subsequent performance in the "shootoff" that would be required to determine the final winner of the
de-facto long range championship of the United States.

[JSH]

[Taz575]

I have the Hornady Dies, Lee and Forster for the 6.5 Grendel. Once I get my CZ 527 MTR in Grendel, I will try each of the sets to see how they perform on paper. I have used Lee dies for .223 and using a Lee Auto Drum Powder Dump, TAC powder on a Classic Turret, I was shooting 1/2 MOA groups out to 200 yds in 2 different Savage 10's. For my needs, that is good enough! I use Lee dies for pistol and they are plenty accurate. Lee's aren't as polished/refined as the other dies, but they work well for 90% of the people.

[SCJim]

Interesting thread. I have seen the subject hammered on repeatedly.

Optics and reloading equipment, you get what ya pay for. Most times the end result is no better than what you start with.

I won’t put up with burnish marks on brass from poor finish any more than I will put up with a hazy ring around the outside of an objective.

there is a point of diminishing returns on everything https://precisionrifleblog.com/categ...oes-it-matter/

Going from a $300 dollar scope to a $800 scope I can see a significant difference on a hot day with mirage and crispness of the turret adjustments. We set up a Sightron ($900), a Vortex($1500), and a Nightforce($2600) one day and focused all three on a 800 yard steel plate. The Nightforce had the edge of the Vortex by a small amount, and the Vortex had the edge on the Sightron by a hair. Bottom line though all three of us agreed if you could not read the mirage with the Sightron you would do no better with the Nightforce. If I wanted to read a paperback at 600 yards I would choose the Nightforce, but for putting holes in the ten ring any of the three would do the job just fine

All the internet BS aside it still is a fact that the Lee dies are giving me consistent runout of less than .003 or less difference and seating depths of less than .002 difference. Those numbers might make a difference in a 5K custom rifle shot by a High Master but most of us, or at least I won't see any changes on paper.

[SCJim]

I have the Hornady Dies, Lee and Forster for the 6.5 Grendel. Once I get my CZ 527 MTR in Grendel, I will try each of the sets to see how they perform on paper.

I would love to see some range reports on that CZ when you get it. I am trying to decide whether to buy or build a Grendel bolt rifle and was looking at the CZ's the other day

[Taz575]

I have the Howa Mini 1500 as well as an AR in Grendel, so if I get enough time, I will try to tune a load to each rifle and then load up each load with each set of dies and see how they fair across the board.

[SCJim]

I have the Howa Mini 1500 as well as an AR in Grendel, so if I get enough time, I will try to tune a load to each rifle and then load up each load with each set of dies and see how they fair across the board.

I am more interested to see how the Howa compares to the CZ

[LR1955]

I have the Howa Mini 1500 as well as an AR in Grendel, so if I get enough time, I will try to tune a load to each rifle and then load up each load with each set of dies and see how they fair across the board.

And I bet both will fare just the same.

I also bet that you have a better chance of getting a set of Lee Grendel dies that reduce your brass life by half or simply break than other die sets.

And, a good chamber and barrel will do a lot to make up for inconsistencies in brass and cartridge run out.

Problem is for most that they won't see a difference until they get to 300 and most do not have access to a 300 yard range.

LR55

[SCJim]

Problem is for most that they won't see a difference until they get to 300 and most do not have access to a 300 yard range.

LR55

by late July or August I will be testing out to 800, but for next two couple of months I will be shooting in the national forest ranges which are limited to 100. Why don't you post a few pics of your targets? I am curious to see how the Grendel holds up at mid and long range

[LR1955]

by late July or August I will be testing out to 800, but for next two couple of months I will be shooting in the national forest ranges which are limited to 100. Why don't you post a few pics of your targets? I am curious to see how the Grendel holds up at mid and long range

SCJ:

I never said the Grendel was a good choice for High Power and it is a worse choice for F Class or PRC. I shot a Grendel for a year or two in High Power and saw my scores at 600 plummet due to the low velocities of the Grendel that make it somewhat like the old 168 .308 load we used to shoot out of M-14's in terms of wind doping. In other words, if you see a mirage change, put at least a minute on the rifle. So you lose point after point and finally go back to a cartridge that is efficient by today's standards. I always shot higher scores at 500 and 600 with a .260 or 6XC. Always. The Grendel cartridge does not produce enough velocity to be a good choice for competitive purposes so I went to a 6 AR and my scores immediately went back up. Not sure what repeating a mistake will prove so when I shoot a Grendel gas gun it is in a completely non competitive environment and normally on steel.

I view the Grendel and an AR-15 as a good choice if the game being played involved power factors and one could get it to make MPF. Its recoil is 1/3 that of a .308 and you can at least match the old 168 grain loads in terms of external ballistics, but I fear the loads would be pretty stiff and a guy would shear lugs quickly. Actually I believe the Grendel is a fantastic hunting cartridge for game like hogs. The Grendel and the 6.8 out of a AR-15 would be my choice for hog hunting.

Nope -- today I only shoot prone matches and I shoot a 6 Bench Rest. Fantastic cartridge to 600. A better choice would probably be a 6 X 47 but I don't want to buy a new barrel every season.

Let me add that when I thought the Grendel was the heat, I too spent hours with load development and even cut out the targets to record my grouping. I had good and bad results, just like any other cartridge but the difference was recoil so I like the Grendel for its low recoil. When I started practicing with it at 300 for HP, it shot no better than anything else and guys shooting match rifles in 5.56 generally shot higher scores. Less recoil with the 5.56.

LR55

[SCJim]

Thanks for the info. The AR is being set up as a hunting/fun rifle. I used a 4 - 14.5 Sig Sauer BDX on it rather than a long range scope just for that reason. I plan playing with it out to 800 target wise and just banging steel for fun. With the Grendels long barrel life I can play with load development all day. My main rifle has a 6.0 CM on it at the moment. I have my .223 but at anything beyond 300 there are better choices. Also have a tactical build with .260 Rem but the barrel is gone on that one, still trying to decide on rebarreling with another .260, a 6CM, or a Grendel barrel. No rush, the main gun is only at c.400 and as long as I use it only for matches will easily last this season. Next year I might switch it to 6BR or 6 Dasher and sell the 6 CM dies

Planning on taking the Grendel to the range tomorrow. I have 50 Nosler 123 CC's loaded with 26.5 TAC, a 35 round load workup using 8028 and 123 SMK's and a 30 round workup with 120 SMK's and 8028. I am hoping to use the TAC rounds to get the rifle cycling correctly and then try and see what kind of accuracy and SD's I can get with the 8028 test loads if I have time