What changes in bullets/loads to help with accuracy, ELD-M versus SST

[CaptnC]

For some reason I can't correct a post, only delete it...found an error...I'm all about velocity. Most all rifle bullets perform best at rifle velocities not pistol so I decided to see just how fast the 2630fps loads would shoot out of my 24" barreled AR. Those little sweeties were zipping along well over 2900fps with a better SD and ES than I had from the gun the loads were developed for. Shooting nice little 1" groups at 200yds.


Also a little disclaimer - I build all my own AR's and I feel most AR "barrel" issues are really build issues. I do all the little things to help ensure accuracy. So it might explain my success with rock bottom priced barrels that get slammed regularly here.

[A5BLASTER]

Oddly enough many people claim the 6.5 Grendel to be a very accurate cartridge but as you can see it can be a bit finicky.

I've gone way against the grain for those on this site. I refuse force this cartridge into a pistol platform, it was designed for max bullet weights under 120 (yes I do shoot 123gr bullets out of mine) so I don't even bother to open a thread suggesting anything over the 123 bullet class, forget about seating depth in an AR because magazine length is as long as you can go unless you plan to shoot it as a single shot and lastly I have had great success with the most budget priced barrels out there. I have 5 - 6.5 barrels and one 7.62x39 that shoot fantastic.

I did some load development (2630av. fps) over the last two weeks in my shortest 6.5 Grendel 16" SS M4 contour (I prefer heavy barrels, but needed the short gas system for a piston kit) plans were to make it a short range, night vision hog gun. But I just shot it out to 600yds with a pet load of 90gr TNT's. It was shooting right with my buddies 6.5 Creedmoor Bargera (sp).

Now for the part you will be most interested in...I'm all about velocity. Most all rifle bullets perform best at rifle velocities not pistol so I decided to see just how fast the 2630fps loads would shoot out of my 24" barreled AR. Those little sweeties were zipping along well over 200fps with a better SD and ES than I had from the gun the loads were developed for. Shooting nice little 1" groups at 200yds.

But, I had found 7 Federal cases the week before so I sized, trimmed and loaded them all at the same time. The Fedeal cases group opened up to a hair over 2" (still MOA) average velocity was the same, but the SD and ES were over double the Hornady cases...with the exact same everything while loading those cases.

I don't know recall off the top of my head what the powder charge was (I loaded 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5x284 the day before I went to the range) but I did use Benchmark powder and CCI BR primers...at magazine length. The Benchmark powder has seemed to make the 6.5 Grendel very easy to load for. It's not real popular but I feel if a few more tired it...it would come to life for many Grendel shooters.

Hwy nice to see you back Cap.

Still sad to see your still misinformed about alot of things grendel.

[rabiddawg]

Hwy nice to see you back Cap.

Still sad to see your still misinformed about alot of things grendel.

At least he is realizing Grendel is more than a 100 yard cartridge.

As for his “finicky” statement. I would bet you money none of those cheap barrels have a true saami chamber. That’s why they are “finicky”. The Grendel hunter barrels are liberty. Known to Not be saami and more like the 264 lbc. Les Baer designed his chamber for a certain bullet. I don’t recall which one nor am I interested in looking it up.

[CaptnC]

Hey guys...thanks for the greetings...been fishing. I set a water body record for Striped Bass recently, so I've had a productive and fun summer.

Back on topic...never said it wasn't a long range cartridge, it's not a long range hunting cartridge. I never bothered to come back and let A5 know (I think is was him that made the statement) but long range BOLT ACTION pistols using rifle cartridges on the Long Range Hunting Online Magazine use 16 to 18 inch barrels. I never knew that until after someone mentioned the Long Range Pistol Forum.

"Finicky"...I was referring to you guys...I've not had much issue after I got away from the more common powders. 8208 is a tough one, but H335 and Benchmark shoot "hunting acceptable" MOA at 100yds. With just about any powder weight. It has been pretty easy to get the SD and ES into single digit's with those powders. My 16" SS Bear Creek Arsenal barrel was shooting under MOA at 100yds right out of the wrapper.

As for the 129gr+ bullets statement...I use Hodgdon load data all the time...guess what....the heaviest weight they list is for a Grendel 123gr. Many of the loads in the Grendel are compressed, because the AR platform magazine length....the bullet has to go in the case....less room for powder. Seems a no brainer in the AR platform it's just not any reason to try. If we all had bolt guns I know I'd be shooting some 130gr bullets, but I dont....so I dont!

Back to important things...

OP, you mentioned mainly loading pistol...get a chronograph. We can't see pressure and most can't don't have the tools to.measure chamber pressure. The AR platform can't handle bolt action pressure. As a basic rule of thumb, you have to use velocity to stay within safe pressure range for the platform!

[CaptnC]

OP...if you start seeing pressure signs on your cases you are most likely well past the safe pressure for the AR platform.

[Six5x39]

Odin 16 incher , loves ELD's or SST's if I do my part ( im still trying to come with my handloads to beat factory , but havent yet )

[Rocco_1995]

When you start reloading use 120 grain gold dots and forget about the sst

[Jimla]

When you start reloading use 120 grain gold dots and forget about the sst

I agree, they cost a lot less also 20% rebate from Speer if you buy over $100.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019830051?pid=726278

Sierra Pro-Hunter 120gr may also be one to try.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010525454?pid=517478

People with barrel quality issues, it best to try different bullets and find the bullet that the barrel likes. It may be possible to find .5 MOA hunting bullet, it you try a few. The two bullet above are different from SST.

[DCC83501]

I recently got an upper from grendelhunter. So far I happy, no malfunctions and seems to shoot straight with some ammo. I started with the 123 SST hornady. The groups were a bit random, sometime 1" sometimes 2" during break in at 100 yards. I thought I had a bad barrel. I bought some of the 123 ELD-M hornady to try something different. I have had several really nice 5 shot groups. Today I had one that was under 1/2" at 100 yards, all 5 touching. The SST same day was throwing about 1.5-2" groups. I bought the upper with the intent to hunt with it, I'd like 1" at 100, to have hopefully no more than 3" at 300. I am going to get some dies for it soon. Almost all of my re-loading has been for pistol (USPSA, so not so much precision but more reliability).

What makes a rifle chamber shoot a certain round better?

I'd prefer the SST to hunt with, I'll load my own; but is there anything I'll be able to vary that might improve the SST groups?

this was EXACTLY my experience with same ammunition and a new Grendel I built a couple weeks ago. Only difference is the SST wouldn't group any better than 4-6 MOA!

[andrewtac]

What barrel?

[Gusmeister]

I run an Odin Works 20" heavy barrel out of my 6.5 Grendel AR. I am an on demand 1.5 MOA shooter (with occasional but short lived moments of brilliance ). Allowing for that, the Factory 123gr ELD shot inside my skill level out to 900 yards on steel. The factory SST gave 1.5 to 2 times bigger groups. ELD reloads with CFE 223 were almost as good as the factory round. Yet the 123 gr SST with CFE was full 2X larger in group size.

However... I switched over to IMR 8208 about 18 months ago and the ELD and the SST shoot the same size group out to 900 yards. There may be a small difference but I mostly shoot steel at distance and cannot tell the difference.

The point of all this is every barrel likes what it likes and you get the fun of figuring it out. And remember, if you are seeing any pressure signs you are probably waaaay over pressure if you are shooting an AR in 6.5 Grendel.

[Liberty65]

For what it's worth, I have a 20" Liberty straight fluted SS barrel. It shoots well with 123SST handloads using 28.0 grains of 8208XBR. When I do my part, it consistently is sub MOA. It also likes 123 grain Sierra Matchkings. I've had 0.6 MOA groups at 200 yds with the 123 SMKs. But the best group I've had was with 120 grain Sierra Matchkings that gave me a one big hole 5 shot group just at 0.5 MOA at 100 yds.

[KC Huntin]

this was EXACTLY my experience with same ammunition and a new Grendel I built a couple weeks ago. Only difference is the SST wouldn't group any better than 4-6 MOA!

Same here with my Grendelhunter