Loading up to 36 grains of cfe223 with 90gr tnt

[RobUrban]

Yesterday I was bord on my day off and decided to try to see how much powder and how much velocity I could get out of my 20" grendel with cfe 223. I previously had loaded to 34 grains with very good accuracy. Today I loaded up 1 bullet at half grain increment up to 36 grains. Surprisingly didnt get significant pressure signs and could probably put maybe a half grain more in the case. I was very suprised to see no significant pressure signs and almost 3000fps. Bullets loaded to 2.20 oal hornady brass and cci400. Velocity with 36 grain was 2962. Anyone els try this crazy idea I had yesterday?

[RobUrban]

[Jimla]

Quickload program reports you 36gr load is over pressured.

Cartridge : 6.5 Grendel (SAAMI)
Bullet : .264, 90, Speer HP TNT 1445
Useable Case Capaci: 34.037 grain H2O = 2.210 cm?
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.200 inch = 55.88 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder : Hodgdon CFE223 *C ?

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.278% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-02.8 102 35.00 2868 1644 48113 8797 91.0 0.979 ! Near Maximum !
-02.5 103 35.10 2877 1654 48593 8826 91.2 0.974 ! Near Maximum !
-02.2 103 35.20 2887 1665 49079 8856 91.4 0.970 ! Near Maximum !
-01.9 103 35.30 2896 1676 49571 8886 91.5 0.966 ! Near Maximum !
-01.7 103 35.40 2905 1687 50072 8915 91.7 0.961 ! Near Maximum !
-01.4 104 35.50 2915 1698 50576 8944 91.9 0.957 ! Near Maximum !
-01.1 104 35.60 2924 1709 51086 8972 92.0 0.953 ! Near Maximum !
-00.8 104 35.70 2934 1720 51595 9001 92.2 0.948 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.6 105 35.80 2943 1731 52125 9029 92.4 0.944 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.3 105 35.90 2953 1742 52654 9057 92.5 0.940 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 105 36.00 2962 1754 53189 9085 92.7 0.936 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.3 106 36.10 2972 1765 53729 9113 92.8 0.931 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.6 106 36.20 2981 1776 54276 9140 93.0 0.927 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.8 106 36.30 2991 1788 54833 9167 93.1 0.923 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.1 106 36.40 3000 1799 55394 9194 93.3 0.919 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.4 107 36.50 3010 1811 55961 9221 93.5 0.915 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ? 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 105 36.00 3146 1978 64282 9315 98.2 0.862 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 105 36.00 2735 1494 43448 8381 83.3 1.029

[A5BLASTER]

Yesterday I was bord on my day off and decided to try to see how much powder and how much velocity I could get out of my 20" grendel with cfe 223. I previously had loaded to 34 grains with very good accuracy. Today I loaded up 1 bullet at half grain increment up to 36 grains. Surprisingly didnt get significant pressure signs and could probably put maybe a half grain more in the case. I was very suprised to see no significant pressure signs and almost 3000fps. Bullets loaded to 2.20 oal hornady brass and cci400. Velocity with 36 grain was 2962. Anyone els try this crazy idea I had yesterday?

Pressure signs dont show up on grendle brass till its too late. And working in half grain increase can bite you in the butt really quick with the grendel case.

I haven't tryed it and I'm not really going to either. Since my bolt grendel can't handle that much with a 85 grain bullet and h335 without being way way past safe pressure for the case strength.

[HuntTXhogs]

You’re going to Blow Yourself Up

[RobUrban]

I totally agree 36 grain would have to be over pressure. The most I would load regularly would be 34 grains. I agree was a stupid idea, just wanted to see the results. As to the pressure signs why am I at least not seeing much on the brass? I understand some people don't because the round isnt full pressure but just didnt expect this. Thanks for all the feedback, i honestly cant believe that much powder fits in the case.

[A5BLASTER]

I totally agree 36 grain would have to be over pressure. The most I would load regularly would be 34 grains. I agree was a stupid idea, just wanted to see the results. As to the pressure signs why am I at least not seeing much on the brass? I understand some people don't because the round isnt full pressure but just didnt expect this. Thanks for all the feedback, i honestly cant believe that much powder fits in the case.

I will let others explain better why grendel brass doesn't show pressure signs till it's way past safe pressure.

Honestly I wouldnt load 34 grains either with out doing a very very detailed load work up to make sure it's safe.

As I said my bolt action howa cant get to that kind of load with h335 powder. And h335 is a way better powder for the light weight pills.

I hit just shy of 2900 fps with the maker 85 grain trex in my howa 20 inch with h335 at 31 grains. I possible could have gone a lil more but I was getting close to a spike in velocity.

When the velocity spikes that's your first sign your reaching are crossed into high pressure land.

[Klem]

To the Forum, please don't similarly damage your precious rifles and risk injury.

To the OP, be careful, that pressure vessel is now compromised.

[JASmith]

The problem with Quickload is that it computes pressures that are far higher than one sees with a pressure gage.

This one powder where we need to watch for pressure signs knowing that seeing brass indicators tells us that we are way over max pressure and then back off between 5 and 10 percent.

An accuracy node in this range should both work well an yield reasonable pressures.

[RobUrban]

You guys think shooting a couple rounds out of a gun with no significant pressure signs on the brass would damage the gun or in danger the shooter? I have seen many loads "none that i have loaded" in the Grendel that raised burs on brass and popped primers but as far as i could tell didn't cause any damage. I agree I would not recommend this nor do a plan to do it again. Just thought it was interesting that in this scenario it was possible to reach some crazy velocities with this combination without dangerous pressure signs and I thought I would share my results.

[Msalm]

I would say you could do this in a full sized bolt gun, but no way would I load that hot in an AR or the Howa mini. If you look at the velocity guys are getting with the 30 Major in benchrest (necked up Grendel) they?re running 55,000+ PSI but I wouldn?t do so in anything but a good full sized action (BOLT action)

[A5BLASTER]

You guys think shooting a couple rounds out of a gun with no significant pressure signs on the brass would damage the gun or in danger the shooter? I have seen many loads "none that i have loaded" in the Grendel that raised burs on brass and popped primers but as far as i could tell didn't cause any damage. I agree I would not recommend this nor do a plan to do it again. Just thought it was interesting that in this scenario it was possible to reach some crazy velocities with this combination without dangerous pressure signs and I thought I would share my results.

We thank you for presenting what you did. But the problem lays in your statement of no pressure signs.

Grendel brass isn't going to show signs till your way past what's considered max pressure in a ar15 grendel.

Just because you didn't see the signs doesn't mean you weren't operating well above them. And with that load you were very much past safe pressure limits.

Remember your rifle, your ammo they are both man made mechanical devices prone to extreme failure could have happens on the first shot are it might not happen for 5000 rounds.

But something will give with that load for sure.

[A5BLASTER]

I would say you could do this in a full sized bolt gun, but no way would I load that hot in an AR or the Howa mini. If you look at the velocity guys are getting with the 30 Major in benchrest (necked up Grendel) they?re running 55,000+ PSI but I wouldn?t do so in anything but a good full sized action (BOLT action)

Agreed I would never try it in a ar grendel. Now my howa mini if I felt inclined to run up a 100 grain are less weight bullet too 3000 fps in it. It would handle it without a problem as far as something breaking goes.

Bolt might end up being super sticky. The howa mini action is rated well above what a grendel case is said to have for max pressure.

[CJW]

This is one of the most chilling threads I have ever read. I find it hard to even believe.

If you don?t reload responsibly, you shouldn?t reload.

There is always a load way under max that will work.

Go by published load data starting out. Loads from the chat rooms can get you killed.

This forum is all about safety, the elders here really have their act together, listen to them

Will one event destroy the integrity of metal, you bet it will.

I fly and see metal fatigue all the time.

[Joseph5]

I did a load workup with my Grendel that has a Lilja AR24 barrel on. Did my work up using a chronograph following the procedure described here by LRRPF52. I also measured case head expansion. I used CFE223 and 95gr VMAX bullets in once fired brass and went up to 34gr go powder and I was getting average velocities of 2950 fps and good accuracy. I set my powder measure for 33.9 grains and loaded several hundred rounds which shoot great. Safe in my rifle. They also work good in my LaRue ultimate upper that I put together. I did the same procedure with 123gr SST bullet and CFE and they are shooting just a hair over 2600fps with good accuracy and also work in the LaRue with groups just slightly larger.