scale calibration

[MEHavey]

I used the balance beam from lee precision to measure out 27.5 grains of benchmark for some 100 grain barnes ttsx. I zeroed the scale properly and measure each load meticulously, but later, to verify, I used an electronic scale to measure the loaded cartridges, but I got unexpected results.

Do you have any 224 match bullets? If so, weigh one of those. They will be easily be within 0.1gr of stated weight.
For that matter, weigh any bullets you have and compare between the balance and electronic scale readings.

Do not use/trust coinage for anything but comparing a reading between two different scales.
Repeat: Do not.
(EX: one quarter just weighed was 85.3gr, the next was 89.5)

I have acquired multiple scales over the years -- a old Texan which I still regard as the gold standard; an RCBS 505 (heavy base) which I haul out every paranoid blue moon; and a ChargeMaster 1500 on which I literally stake my life. (Never sell modern peizo crystallography short.)
I still start every loading session with a Lyman check weight though.

Get some check weights from Lyman. They will be the best investment you make for piece of mind.

[mongoosesnipe]

I will never rely on a digital reloading scale for reloading the digital reloading scales on the market are just not reliable enough for my taste the 3 decimal chemical balances I use in the lab cost about $2500 each compared to reloading scales there is no comparison at home I use a rcbs 1010 Scale or more accurately described balance will weigh charges accurately under any condition and can not have an error as it is a balance it will weigh accurately on the moon if nessisary I know this post got kind of ranty but I personally know a guy who blew up a gun using a digital scale and this guy was not the type to make mistakes reloading he was literally a rocket scientist worked at McDonnell Douglas and was one of the principal engineers for the f15 his battery got a little low while he was loading 5.7x28mm and his scale ended up with and extra 2 grains of powder in his loads resulting in an exploded p90 (2 gr is a a 20% overcharge on the 5.7) he is now back to a balance scale balance scale with out incident

[LR1955]

I will never rely on a digital reloading scale for reloading the digital reloading scales on the market are just not reliable enough for my taste the 3 decimal chemical balances I use in the lab cost about $2500 each compared to reloading scales there is no comparison at home I use a rcbs 1010 Scale or more accurately described balance will weigh charges accurately under any condition and can not have an error as it is a balance it will weigh accurately on the moon if nessisary I know this post got kind of ranty but I personally know a guy who blew up a gun using a digital scale and this guy was not the type to make mistakes reloading he was literally a rocket scientist worked at McDonnell Douglas and was one of the principal engineers for the f15 his battery got a little low while he was loading 5.7x28mm and his scale ended up with and extra 2 grains of powder in his loads resulting in an exploded p90 (2 gr is a a 20% overcharge on the 5.7) he is now back to a balance scale balance scale with out incident

MGS:

Have had a number of electronic scales over the years. My latest is a 15 year old Dillon that plugs into a wall socket. I broke one of my earlier scales and it never worked right after it was 'fixed' at the factory but it was obvious it wasn't working as it constantly showed error messages. So, I threw it out and never bought another product from the same company again. The Dillon works fine as most electronic scales these days. As long as guys follow the instructions for the scales by turning them on and letting them sit for ten or fifteen minutes, then calibrate, and keep them zeroed by hitting the 'zero' button once in a while, they will work just fine. If a guy gets a bit nervous keep a match bullet handy to put on the scale just to ensure yourself the scale hasn't lost calibration. It is important to keep the electronic scales zeroed throughout a loading session. Simply press the zero button and if a person is still nervous, put on a bullet to check the weight.

I have not found any two scales to be exactly the same in a reading. Balance or electronic. They will vary .1 or .2 grains from each other. However, if the difference between blowing up a rifle is determined by .1 or .2 grains of powder, the individual needs to blow up his rifle in order to weed out the gene pool of handloaders.

I have also found technocrats to trust technology more than their physical ability. Comes with the territory I guess. I visually inspect my loaded brass before bullet seating and if any powder level seems high or low, I will dump it on a scale and weigh it. Or just dump it back into the hopper and re-charge. I would imagine that with such a small cartridge as a 5.7 X 28 that a visual inspection would have detected even two grains of powder. Bottom line is that trusting your eyes and intuition is as important as ensuring the scale is zeroed. Another thing someone can do with such small capacity cartridges is to use a powder that fills 90 percent of the case. That way if you over charge, powder will spill out of the case.

And, your 1010 scale will also lose its zero if the environmental conditions of your reloading room change. Humidity changes, changes in temperature, air currents, will cause the 1010 scale to lose its zero too. Yes, my balance scale is a 1010 as well.

So, your buddy either had a faulty scale or he didn't calibrate it, check its calibrtion, or keep it zeroed. Also, he may want to rethink max loading his ammunition?

LR1955

[ChellieWiles]

You guys need to throw away every digital scale you have, and it does not matter what you pay for it. They utilize electricity to calibrate a pad sitting on a diode that transfers information through other avenues. Not only will the results become inaccurate once the batteries are below 60 percent full power, they are a trap for any and all debris around the reloading bench. There are a lot of painful little parts that have to be perfect to get even close to the cheapest balance beam scale results. Unless you are willing to delouse, wash down, and keep that scale in an air tight room, after 1 hour of sitting out of the box, the scale is useless. If the pan isn't centered perfectly with the grains spread out precisely the measurements are going to vary as well.
Gravity pulls the same way on every charge thrown on a gravity scale with little variances due to the position of the fulcrum (where the scale pivots) on the normal gravity scale. There are only three parts to any regular gravity scale which is about 10 less than even cheap digital ones. The simpler, the less variance. It is the most accurate scale you will ever buy due to the conditions you will be using it in. The only advantage digital has is that they are lighter and able to be thrown further into the air while skeet shooting. Be a man and reload properly. I don't want to be on the range next to somebody who is willing to put their life and mine at risk because of improperly being taught how to reload.

[ChellieWiles]

+1 for the 1010 as well

[Variable]

LOL! My RCBS Chargemaster must be a phenom then. It somehow miraculously has kept working, and keeps putting out accurate charges. It even weighs those pesky check weights correctly after calibration.

Like LR1955 advises, I keep my load densities up. When I'm done charging a tray of cases I simply double check with a visual inspection under a bright light. Any deviation would be very obvious. Mine works great, so I'll forego the skeet shooting at least for now.

[rasp65]

Here is a tip from German Salazar on keeping electronic scales repeatable: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...-static-spray/

[JASmith]

I like the idea of keeping a set of known mass items that are in the same ball park as the charges you're weighing although having a 52-55 gr match bullet may be the most expedient option.

Haven't tried it, but will during my next reloading session!

BTW -- the check weight will be used to confirm the "zero" on my RCBS 502.

Yes, it does get affected by drafts, etc. This is one of the reasons for having windows closed while measuring charges and being attentive to current temperatures.

[LR1955]

You guys need to throw away every digital scale you have, and it does not matter what you pay for it. They utilize electricity to calibrate a pad sitting on a diode that transfers information through other avenues. Not only will the results become inaccurate once the batteries are below 60 percent full power, they are a trap for any and all debris around the reloading bench. There are a lot of painful little parts that have to be perfect to get even close to the cheapest balance beam scale results. Unless you are willing to delouse, wash down, and keep that scale in an air tight room, after 1 hour of sitting out of the box, the scale is useless. If the pan isn't centered perfectly with the grains spread out precisely the measurements are going to vary as well.
Gravity pulls the same way on every charge thrown on a gravity scale with little variances due to the position of the fulcrum (where the scale pivots) on the normal gravity scale. There are only three parts to any regular gravity scale which is about 10 less than even cheap digital ones. The simpler, the less variance. It is the most accurate scale you will ever buy due to the conditions you will be using it in. The only advantage digital has is that they are lighter and able to be thrown further into the air while skeet shooting. Be a man and reload properly. I don't want to be on the range next to somebody who is willing to put their life and mine at risk because of improperly being taught how to reload.

CW:

So, how does one using an electronic scale equate to "improperly being taught how to reload"?

LR1955

[bwaites]

Those who complain about digital scales are living in the past. While I do keep a balance scale around in case there is power outage and I need to reload, my Chargemaster just chugs along. Yes, its accurate to +/- .1 grain, but that is really all a balance scale is accurate to as well.

EVERY ammunition manufacturer uses electronic scales, EVERY powder manufacturer uses electronic scales, EVERY bullet manufacturer uses electronic scales, EVERY pharmaceutical is weighed on electronic scales, not balances. EVERY prepackaged recipe is weighed on electronic scales, not balances. The margin for error with electronic scales is far smaller than the margin with balances. They are easier to easier to calibrate, easier to care for, and easier to use.

I can't begin to tell you how many tales of woe I've heard about balance scales when someone slid the weight one notch past where they thought it was and loaded extra powder. Sure, thats a reloader error, not a scale error, but it happens fairly frequently.

Properly calibrating electronic scales is easily done, and apart from making sure that they aren't on the same line as electronic ballasts or something else which pulses, they are very accurate.

If you want to use a balance, by all means, do so. But millions upon millions upon millions of rounds will be loaded using electronic scales while you load, and they will be just as safe, on average as those loaded on balances, and just as accurate, on average, as well.

[Drifter]

after 1 hour of sitting out of the box, the scale is useless. If the pan isn't centered perfectly with the grains spread out precisely the measurements are going to vary as well.

Simply not true with the Chargemaster that I use. I've tested it over and over, and the scale measures the same regardless.

The sky is not falling.

[ChellieWiles]

My concern about proper reloading goes to the reason behind doing everything by hand anyway instead of buying ammo. It's purpose is to create rounds that exceed manufacturers specifications. If you don't want to exceed them, then by all means, use your electronic ones. You will never be able to beat a gravity scale that is kept clean. I'm not going to argue about it. Gravity scales ARE more accurate and of the thousands of digital scales I have used in my old chemical engineering profession (I retired at 27 due to this knowledge) none ever beat the repeat-ability of the beam scale. Humans have used gravity to measure things for thousands of years and it works everytime, the same, for as long as this earth will spin. A digitally made item cannot repeat, on the scale of what a gravity scale, can do for as long as it can do it. I have no doubt that digital scales have come a long way, but there are way to many variables inside of that to get continuous repeats on what the average reloaders use. 9 out of every 10 handloads I make shown duplicates through the chrono and the best I've ever did with a digital scale is 4/10. The proof is in the pudding and my statement is not unfounded. My last digital scale was one I took home from a military installation that carried a price tag of around 5 thousand dollars. It could not produce the duplicates I get with a 1010 RCBS.

[ChellieWiles]

btw,
I don't see a digital scale in the blind lady of justice's hand. Just saying.

[LR1955]

My concern about proper reloading goes to the reason behind doing everything by hand anyway instead of buying ammo. It's purpose is to create rounds that exceed manufacturers specifications. If you don't want to exceed them, then by all means, use your electronic ones. You will never be able to beat a gravity scale that is kept clean. I'm not going to argue about it. Gravity scales ARE more accurate and of the thousands of digital scales I have used in my old chemical engineering profession (I retired at 27 due to this knowledge) none ever beat the repeat-ability of the beam scale. Humans have used gravity to measure things for thousands of years and it works everytime, the same, for as long as this earth will spin. A digitally made item cannot repeat, on the scale of what a gravity scale, can do for as long as it can do it. I have no doubt that digital scales have come a long way, but there are way to many variables inside of that to get continuous repeats on what the average reloaders use. 9 out of every 10 handloads I make shown duplicates through the chrono and the best I've ever did with a digital scale is 4/10. The proof is in the pudding and my statement is not unfounded. My last digital scale was one I took home from a military installation that carried a price tag of around 5 thousand dollars. It could not produce the duplicates I get with a 1010 RCBS.

CW:

So, you are telling us that 9 out of 10 of your handloads, when shot over a chronograph, give identical velocities? Not varying by even one feet per second? And that this is due to your use of gravity scales when measuring powder charges?

LR1955

[bwaites]

btw,
I don't see a digital scale in the blind lady of justice's hand. Just saying.

LOL!!!! Bwahahahahahahaha!