Which powder to choose for 127 - 129 bullets

[Scout175]

Little guidance from the horde please so I don't waste too many pills as I create a new white-tail hunting load for next Fall

Goal muzzle velocity: 2300-2400 fps (all shots less than 300 yards, usual 100-150). Willing to settle on the lower end as I don't want to push the velocity to a point where pressure becomes an issue.
Looking for low SD and accuracy from CZ 527 American 24" with the following bullets (note- lucky to score #100 of each over the last few months):

Barnes LRX 127
Nosler Accubond LR 129
Hornady SST 129

No experience with any of these particular bullets/weights in the 6.5 GR. Although these are all very different bullet designs, I have used all 3 types in other calibers and I am happy with any of these bullets as they will do just fine on the whitetails. Choice will be dictated by whichever one the gun likes.

Here's the powders I have to choose from:
IMR 8208 XBR
TAC
CFE 223
IMR 4895
IMR 4064
Win 748
VV 530
VV540
PP Varmint
Accurate 2520

I have the Nosler load min-max for the AccuBond LR for 8208, TAC, and CFE. I also have the Hornady min-max for the SST for TAC, IMR 4895, Win 748, CFE 223, A-2520 and 8208. Don't have any data for the Barnes LRX 127 but I read in another post that Barnes suggested using the Accubond 129 data.

Wanting to try out the heavier pills in the CZ where I can safely get a little more speed than my AR. The CZ is new and the only thing I have loaded for it are the Sierra varmint 85s for plinking with Accurate 2230 and H322. Both of which shoot sub-MOA at 100.

I use a RCBS charge master lite for metering.

If you could only pick 2 from the list of powders I have listed above, with only the bullets 127-129 bullets I listed, which would you recommend?

[VASCAR2]

[tdbru]

Scout175,
i'd recommend you try these three powders for your three bullets. 4895, CFE223, and ProPower Varmint. Please note that the 127LRX will take more impact speed to open up than the other two choices. if the shots are close it probably won't matter. if you're trying to stretch the distance i'd probably go with whichever of the two, accubond LR or SST, groups the best out of your rifle as they'll open up at lower impact velocities than the LRX. in spite of Barnes' advertising, based upon what i read here on the forum, i'd keep 2100 to 2200 fps as the lower end of impact velocities for the Barnes bullets for good expansion. if the ranges are close enough it likely wont matter which of the three you use from a terminal effect point of view. if that's the case, pick whichever groups well and you're happy with. within the minimum impact speed distance required for good expansion all three of them will perform well.
good luck in the fall!!
-tdbru

[StoneHendge]

I wouldn't obsess with SD. A 50 fps velocity difference is 0.1" of drop at 150 yards and less than an inch at 300. I would lean towards the slower powders, especially out of a 24", but don't have any direct experience with heavies with those you have listed. N540 looks like the only one that might be too slow.

[Zeneffect]

I use a chargemastwr lite also, and it's inconsistent. Not terribly, but +-.1 to me isn't accurate enough.

Cfe meters really well though and was within .03 most of the time. Cfe would also be my choice here I think.

[grayfox]

I have shot the 129 sst and the 129 Ablr out of my howa 20", with CFE and Lever, for a 20" barrel I was getting ~2440. Accuracy was ~1"/100 yds... some of that could have been me and technique.
For your 24" you might be able to get around 2500 or a little more. As always work up slowly.
Seating close to max or longer, 2.265. In a bolt action you have a bit more wiggle room on pressures and cartridge lengths.
These may not be safe MVs for an AR action.
I agree with SH, the 50 ft/s or even +/- 0.1 gr at your distances will not amount to much, of more importance will be settling on a node to use.
ps, I'm using a full chargemaster and get that +/- 0.1 gr or maybe better, routinely (even when I load only the "exact" throw on the scale). theoretically only 10 ft/s deviation which would get lost in the data noise of what you're shooting.
The Ablr will open up down to 1300 ft/s. Lots of opening room for your shots.
The LRX as I recall, is somewhere down to 1600-1700. So even if you stay above 1900, lots of room to shoot.
The SST is ~1800 but for that one I'd plan on distances with MVs down to 2050 to ensure it opens far enough: that would be out to ~225 yds.
The other thing you'll want to be mindful of, is temperature sensitivity -- CFE varies more per *F than most powders. Typical number quoted is 1 ft/s per *F, but I have not verified that and suspect that variations can also differ for the cartridge size, ie Grendel vs 308 etc,
All that being said I would try the CFE or 2520/PPV as a second choice, with a 450 primer or mag SRP on hand (for any cold weather).

[Scout175]

Thank you all for solid advice. I'll start with the CFE and the PPV and report back.

[Rosecrans1]

If you are going to develop a load with cfe223, just make sure you shoot your rifle in again at temps reflective of the hunting season temps before going out. CFE223 is really bad at temp sensitivity and though it isn't much, why kick yourself in the ass when you have a monster that you need to make an exacting shot on from a distance. Sight the rifle in a week before the season opens to make sure you have a good zero. You don't state where you live so in Pennsylvania for example, if I zero a cfe223 loaded round with a temperature in the 80's Fahrenheit, it will be quite "off" at 200 yds on December 1st in hunting season. (I use 200yds as my farthest shot on a deer in the woods I hunt in).

cfe223 loses roughly 1.7 fps per degree Fahrenheit. So an 85 degree F workup using this powder will result in an fps loss of 102fps at 25 F. At 200 yds with a heavy for 6.5 Grendel bullet that you are shooting, this will be significant for shot placement on a deer IMHO.

[A5BLASTER]

None of the powders you have listed would be my choice for a hunting load.

H4895 from my cz grendel gives me 2626 average with a 129 ablr.

I have the 25.5 inch barreled American varmint grendel.

[tdbru]

Scout175,
by the way H4895 is pretty darn temperature insensitive, if that matters. i was trying to find the data, and couldn't, so take it with a grain of salt, but if i recall H4895 has a temp stability number of around 0.2 fps / degree F. it doesn't have the copper eliminator in the mix though, where CFE223 does. decisions, decisions....
-tdbru

[grayfox]

A5, waitin' on ya to show up!

If he has h4895, sure, would be a good one.
By his list however.....

hope y'all are doing ok down there in your parts.

[Scout175]

Good evening gents.

Got a hall pass yesterday since I had a big Mother's Day celebration with the wife today. Update on some velocity testing as suggested
CZ 527 bolt action 24 inch barrel
Lapua brass
BR-4 primers
OAL 2.65
Beautiful day 72-74 degrees

PPVarmint powder & Accubond LR 129
26.6 2255
26.8 2281
27 2311
27.2 2342
27.4 2367
27.6 2363
27.8 2401
28 2413
28.2 2468 little tight on bolt lift
28.4 2428 little tight on bolt lift

CFE 223 Powder & Accubond LR 129
28.4 2338
28.6 2377
28.8 2375
29 2401
29.2 2408
29.4 2431
29.6 2446
29.8 2458
30 2476
30.2 2502

CFE 223 and Hornady SST 129
28.4 2367
28.6 2373
28.8 2413
29 2408
29.2 2444
29.4 2437
29.6 2461
29.8 2446
30 2469
30.2 2487

(weird - the up and downs with the SST like a roller coaster when graphed)

Brass for all shots look fine. Think I'll go after the nodes around the 2400 velocity with each of the 3 combos and see how they group but I'm open to other suggestions. Our Fall deer season on SC coast is pretty mild (45-65 degrees) so can always test the CCI 450's in the Fall if lose velocity with the BR-4s. Impact from all 3 had decently consistent point of impact across the 10 shots of 1.5-2 MOA at a hundred with the Accubond looking a bit more favorable. Sub MOA should be quite easy.

I decided not to roll with the Barnes. I have the option of the TAC-TX 115s at 2500fps and didn't feel like chasing the speed with the 127s. I like the idea of having more flexibility in impact velocities/distances with the ABLR and the SST.

Any thoughts about the ladders above and suggestions on where you would go next? The tight bolt at the top end of the PPV and big velocity drop makes me hesitant to go higher with it. I could test the top end of the CFE and see how they group. Wouldn't mind the extra velocity. (Almost got me some H4895 this week but a half second too slow but if I get some, I'll be shoutin out to you A5)

[VASCAR2]

[A5BLASTER]

Good evening gents.

Got a hall pass yesterday since I had a big Mother's Day celebration with the wife today. Update on some velocity testing as suggested
CZ 527 bolt action 24 inch barrel
Lapua brass
BR-4 primers
OAL 2.65
Beautiful day 72-74 degrees

PPVarmint powder & Accubond LR 129
26.6 2255
26.8 2281
27 2311
27.2 2342
27.4 2367
27.6 2363
27.8 2401
28 2413
28.2 2468 little tight on bolt lift
28.4 2428 little tight on bolt lift

CFE 223 Powder & Accubond LR 129
28.4 2338
28.6 2377
28.8 2375
29 2401
29.2 2408
29.4 2431
29.6 2446
29.8 2458
30 2476
30.2 2502

CFE 223 and Hornady SST 129
28.4 2367
28.6 2373
28.8 2413
29 2408
29.2 2444
29.4 2437
29.6 2461
29.8 2446
30 2469
30.2 2487

(weird - the up and downs with the SST like a roller coaster when graphed)

Brass for all shots look fine. Think I'll go after the nodes around the 2400 velocity with each of the 3 combos and see how they group but I'm open to other suggestions. Our Fall deer season on SC coast is pretty mild (45-65 degrees) so can always test the CCI 450's in the Fall if lose velocity with the BR-4s. Impact from all 3 had decently consistent point of impact across the 10 shots of 1.5-2 MOA at a hundred with the Accubond looking a bit more favorable. Sub MOA should be quite easy.

I decided not to roll with the Barnes. I have the option of the TAC-TX 115s at 2500fps and didn't feel like chasing the speed with the 127s. I like the idea of having more flexibility in impact velocities/distances with the ABLR and the SST.

Any thoughts about the ladders above and suggestions on where you would go next? The tight bolt at the top end of the PPV and big velocity drop makes me hesitant to go higher with it. I could test the top end of the CFE and see how they group. Wouldn't mind the extra velocity. (Almost got me some H4895 this week but a half second too slow but if I get some, I'll be shoutin out to you A5)

Window the mag and set your coal length 10 to 15 thousands short of contact with lands and watch the magic happen.

My cz527 will allow 2.355 coal length in the windowed mag and the 129 ablr contacts at 2.347 coal and my pet load is at 2.335 coal.

[Kosh65]

None of the powders you have listed would be my choice for a hunting load.

H4895 from my cz grendel gives me 2626 average with a 129 ablr.

I have the 25.5 inch barreled American varmint grendel.

What charge weight are getting that velocity? Or better yet.........what would be a good starting point to work up from?