New to annealing question

[va_connoisseur]

Just ordered an Annealeez 3.0. My question is there a certain amount of time after annealing that you need to resize the brass? For instance, once I deprime, clean, and anneal the brass, can I wait a week to resize or does it need to be done sooner? Thanks.

[37L1]

You can wait.

[Zeneffect]

It's a metallurgical change. Time won't reharden the brass, only working it will.

[Eye_guy]

It's a metallurgical change. Time won't reharden the brass, only working it will.

Yes, this

[va_connoisseur]

Thanks

[LR1955]

It's a metallurgical change. Time won't reharden the brass, only working it will.

ZE:

Not so positive about that but maybe you can explain it.

Ever shot WWII era ammo? I shot some M-2 Ball (30-06) that was Tri Cities 43. Shot it about twenty five years ago making it about sixty years old when I shot it. Cracked a lot of necks.

Same with some of that Turkish 8mm surplus ammo we used to get for about five dollars a bandoleer. I think that stuff was headstamped early 50's.

I have a bunch FA M-72 Match dated mid to late fifties and it likes to crack the necks periodically.

I wonder if the powder wasn't decaying and causing the brass to become more brittle.

What is your opinion?

LR-55

[Zeneffect]

Corrosive powder back then, it's eating the zinc out of the alloy from the low ph within the sealed case (acidic)

I would presume you wouldn't try annealing a loaded case, but if you do put it on YouTube.

ZE:

I doubt the powder was corrosive but the primers were. However you had to shoot them before they would destroy the barrel unless you cleaned the rifle soon after shooting it.

And they didn't split down the body, only the neck. And I would bet the chambers I was using were a lot better than rack grade rifles from the WWII era.

I will only anneal a piece of brass if I am working the neck down a lot and haven't had to do that since the mid 80's.

I believe annealing using one of the automatic machines does work. Just don't believe anyone outside of the MG shooters will save any money from annealing their brass. Once the stuff is shot fifteen or so times, the brass is ready for recycling. And a guy doesn't need to anneal to get that many shots. Just use good brass, a good sizing die, and a decent chamber.

LR-55

[grayfox]

If the powder is acidic, or even just damp-electrolytic, from any moisture (from the humidity when powder was loaded), the corrosion that takes place is called selective leaching (sometimes de-zincification), where the zinc is removed from the brass alloy (cartridge brass is >15% zinc, which is what's needed for this corrosion).
But this would lead more to a kaboom, not a split neck. The powder is probably not in contact with the neck, rather the bullet. So the de-zincification does not happen where there is no contact.
The left-behind copper (along the case wall interior) does not have the strength of the original brass. That copper lattice-case wall would break or crack during handling, or kaboom during firing.
My guess is something else, which I do not know, was causing the neck splits of the old ammo.

[Zeneffect]

I guess an alternative would be improper case annealing during mass production during war.
Correct primers were corrosive, cordite was erosive and I got the 2 confused. Mental state isn't the best when running a fever so my apologies at the inaccuracy. I'm on day 4 of being really messed up.

[Klem]

55,

Grey's thoughts make sense to me.

Ammunition is resilient, but I would not be surprised if the quality control, and quality of brass made in WWII was not the same as it is today. And maybe the throat of that 30-06 is too generous for multiple reloads of old brass.

My experience of old ammo is that corrosion is more likely to come from the outside, not inside. How it has been stored is influential here.

Internally, again as you know, older primer compounds were more corrosive to barrels than they are now. But that might be moot to brass corroding internally if not fired.

The OPs concern of whether annealed brass changes in some way over time - for all practical purposes, No. Here we are not talking about decades so no change at all.

[grayfox]

Maybe, back in the 40's-early 50's, brass was just stamped/pressed into shape and they didn't anneal the necks like is done now... after all, don't think there was much expectation that the ammo/brass would be reloaded, just a make-shoot sort of thing...? maybe.

[LR1955]

If the powder is acidic, or even just damp-electrolytic, from any moisture (from the humidity when powder was loaded), the corrosion that takes place is called selective leaching (sometimes de-zincification), where the zinc is removed from the brass alloy (cartridge brass is >15% zinc, which is what's needed for this corrosion).
But this would lead more to a kaboom, not a split neck. The powder is probably not in contact with the neck, rather the bullet. So the de-zincification does not happen where there is no contact.
The left-behind copper (along the case wall interior) does not have the strength of the original brass. That copper lattice-case wall would break or crack during handling, or kaboom during firing.
My guess is something else, which I do not know, was causing the neck splits of the old ammo.

GF:

The M-2 Ball was stored in Ammo Supply Points so I am confident it was maintained and stored properly.

It was sealed with tar and of course the primers were crimped.

Not wondering if the tar sealant and or the bullet jacket material had something to do with it. Gave most of it away but may have a box or two sitting around. It was so old the tips went through the cardboard containers.

Corrosive primers are something a guy really needs to stay on top of if he shoots them. I have seen rust start on rifles I shot in high humidity conditions within a couple of hours of shooting old ammo that used corrosive primers.

I would clean them with Sweets on the range, and in this case I would clean the rifles again the next day.

Thanks for the input from you, Klem, and ZE.

LR-55