What powder is in Hornady SST factory load?

[v4lu3s]

Wow that is a lot of really good information. I knew cfe 223 was a pretty forgiving powder as I have best results at near max load on 223 loads. It didn't occur to me about the monolithic bullet being the limiting factor on that load data. I have gone as high as 31.5 grans right now, but had disappointing results on 31.5, 31.3, 30.9, 30.7 and 30.5 when tested with my suppressor, the day before I had test 30.6, 30.8, 31 and 31.2 with good groupings but had not used the suppressor. Seems that I may have some sort of mismatch there that I need to figure out before wasting more materials.

[v4lu3s]

I received a reply from Hornady, not a custom blend just a common commercial powder that has no direct match in the reloading market. I think it is likely something that they use on other cartridges to keep supply easier and cheaper. I would be disappointed but posting here first spurred some interesting insights that I had not found before.

[LR1955]

I received a reply from Hornady, not a custom blend just a common commercial powder that has no direct match in the reloading market. I think it is likely something that they use on other cartridges to keep supply easier and cheaper. I would be disappointed but posting here first spurred some interesting insights that I had not found before.

V4:

Doublespeak. The powder is a 'common commercial powder' yet has not match for handloaders.

Common, yet not common.

LR55

[v4lu3s]

V4:

Doublespeak. The powder is a 'common commercial powder' yet has not match for handloaders.

Common, yet not common.

LR55

Pretty much. It is physically undistinguishable from CFE 223. I took a pic of the powders side by side and unless I knew which bowl was which I would not have been able to tell them apart. I still suspect they use a common commercial cannister powder and by common it is one they use on multiple loads for economic scale.

The 6.5 123gr ELD-M bullet is also almost exactly the same as the SST. The ELD has no cannelure and a darker tip. Both the SST and ELD are the exact same length from base to tip and from base to ogive. The factory load in both appears to be the same powder and both are loaded to 30 grains.
The jump to rifling with both in my Odinworks barrel is 0.04" with measured OAL on both factory SST/ELD-M cartridges at 2.24" and 1.66" to ogive. Given that both bullets are secant ogive I suspect that loading to 2.26" might be more accurate.

[Fess]

V4:

Doublespeak. The powder is a 'common commercial powder' yet has not match for handloaders.

For Hornady, I suspect that the difference is that a "common commercial powder" is available to any ammo maker as opposed to custom propellants developed specifically for them and are considered proprietary to Hornady. In one of the podcasts, they talked about working directly with St. Marks Powders to develop propellants for specific cartridge/bullet combinations. They mentioned that this started with the 375 Ruger and the Ruger Compact Magnums, so Hornady has been using these custom formulated propellants since 2006 or so. Only a couple, like Hodgdon's Leverevolution and Superformance ever became available to reloaders. My guess is that after those two, Hornady began to pay St. Marks to develop propellant formulations that would not be available to others.

[Fess]

Wow that is a lot of really good information. It didn't occur to me about the monolithic bullet being the limiting factor on that load data.

When it comes to monolithic bullets, it is important to realize that the copper alloys used to make them are considerably less dense than lead. In general a copper alloy monolithic bullet will the the same physical size as a cup and core that is 20-25% heavier. In other words the 120 grain CX monolith is pretty much the same size as a 140 - 150 grain cup and core bullet. For a cartridge like the Grendel, that means that a lot of that bullet is inside the case reducing powder capacity.

[v4lu3s]

It is funny that while I knew the facts about the size it did nto occur to me that the obvious thing is that with a limited OAL to load from a magazine that meant the longer bullets were seated deeper and that gave less powder space. Very obvious but easy for me to look over. Thank you.

[v4lu3s]

Has anyone used Gordons Reloading Tool? I found it recently and have been playing with it. I am finding that plugging in the specs of the ELD-M or SST bullet as I measure them, and using CFE 223 at 30 grains that the calculated velocity is right at 2550-2590. It makes me wonder if the commercial canister powder is basically CFE 223 without the copper removal component.

[Bob R]

I have read the entire thread. I do not remember reading where anyone Chrono graphed the factory ammunition to verify the advertised speed. I believe Hornady load data is worked up with a 24" barrel, in a Bolt Action.
I like to check the speed on factory ammunition to see what it does in my gun, and work on my handloads with that information in mind. I would work with CFE223, AA2520/SW Match Rifle, or Lever to start with. You should be able to get very close to where you want to be with one of them.

Years ago I was reloading 308 ammunition for practice ammo. I was trying to match the velocity of Federal Gold Medal Match 168 Loads. I ended up using Magnum Match Primers to match the Velocity of the factory ammunition. Sometimes it takes research and experimentation to get the desired results.

Bob R

[kmon]

Bob, I haven't in several years but velocity was in the ballpark of what the box said. That said same gun setup and range session the same my reloads were in the teens for ES on a 5 shot samply, Hornady was over 150 fps ES on 5 from the box I had.

[v4lu3s]

Interesting note after receiving a PM I had assumed that the Hornady manual was using a 24 inch barrel. The Nosler, Sierra and Hodgdon data DOES use a 24 inch barrel. THe Hornady manual states an Alexander Arms 18 inch barrel was used, with 30 grains of CFE 223 giving between 2400-2450 fps, if you add 4 inches of barrel and velocity it comes REALLY close. In my mind I am going with CFE 223 as I have gotten a handload at 31 grains of CFE 223 behind a 123 Gr ELD-M that is just under 1.5 inches which matches the factory load pretty closely through my barrel.

[tdbru]

v4lu3s,
have you actually chrono'd the hornady ammo out of your rifle?? often, I have found, in their pistol ammo line, I've been chronographing anywhere from 150 to 200 fps slower than advertised MV. which has been kind of eye opening for me. I don't know what bbl length they actually use in listing their pistol ammo velocity but it's seems to me it's either 10+ inch long barrels or they're flat lying. or every handgun I've tested hornady factory ammo out of has a "slow" barrel. or perhaps my chrono is off by that much. could be several reasons. back to your question. as far as barrel lengths, I think most rifle ammo is spec'd out of a 24" tube. If you're running a 24" tube, you're likely getting close to advertised mv. would be good to chrono some factory ammo to see what YOUR rifle is actually giving.

another newish powder that I will be trying out in the future is Winchester StaBall match. just slightly faster than CFE223. So it might make a worthy contender for a good powder to achieve what you're looking to do.

good luck.
-tdbru

[v4lu3s]

I do not YET own a chronograph. GovX briefly had the Garmin unit for $539 but they removed it before I could purchase it. I am looking at a Magnetospeed from Guidefitter once it comes in stock though. I will take a loot at StaBall. I load 5 rifle calibers and would LOVE if I could find a powder that serves for more than 1 caliber but I think that is some really wishful thinking lol. I do roughly judge velocity by recoil on same weight bullets, and with the 123gr grndel loads i can feel very little which means to mea it is less than 5% likely diff in velocity (as comapred to to my 46 grain BL-C2 150 AND 165 grain loads, the 165 is notable sharper recoil).

I think you are really dead on though, without a chrono it is really hard to be "scientific"

[Former Cav]

123 ELD Hornady Match FACTORY LOAD
2505 FPS AVG. (I am not impressed with previous groups or speed, 2 inch groups at best for 5 rounds)
Had error readings. Lots of “glint” Was shooting into the sun (facing East at 9 to 11 AM) Using a Oehler 35P Chronograph. This is through a 20 inch barreled PSA AR 15 upper. (All PSA) I did NOT shoot for GROUP size as the range I went to had the "hooded bill" (think of a baseball cap with a LONG bill) to keep idiots from SHOOTING IN the air and over the berm. this in turn FORCED me to put the chronograph in front of the bill. I had to shoot through the skyscreens that looked like a 4 inch triangle. Between lining up the rifle, the 3 sky screens, and the target with other shooters there and being by myself was next to impossible. I was so dam*ed pissed, I even went out and bought a labRadar unit so I don't have to screw around with the sky screens and wiring etc.

[LRRPF52]

Even from the cheap Faxon group buy 12” barrels, I have seen sub-MOA 5-shot groups pretty consistently with 123gr ELD-M.

I bed the barrels though on square receiver faces, use a rear bag, start from a natural point of aim position through the center of the TGT, settle the gun into the bag paying close attention to the reticle, using the bowling method of reticle index into the TGT, vs fishing.

I make a lot of fine rear bag inputs until my position is dialed-in and I feel confident about it.

I have not grouped 123gr SSTs in a while, so I need to re-visit that some time.