129 ABLR or 123 ELD-M for deer out of a 12in

[st1650]

I built a 12in Grendel for short range white tail/mule deer hunting
I get about 2225 FPS with factory 123 ELD-M
I was able to get a few Nosler 129 ABLR that I am handloading with N540 at 27.5-28.0 but I can only get about 2050 FPS.
For a hunting distance of max 150 yards, should I stay with the Nosler 129 because of it's low expansion threashold (about 1300 FPS according to Nosler) or should I stick with the extra 200 FPS with the factory 123.
Would CFE223 be a better powder with the 129 ?

[grayfox]

Do you have a ballistics app to help you decide?
Mine shows that for the 129, 2050 MV, at 150 yds= 1844 fps, 974 ke
For the 123 eldm factory, 150 yds, 2225 MV = at 150 yds 2001 fps, 1094 ke.
Both results are above the expansion velocity of the bullet, note that the 123 is not really a hunting bullet although some report using it fine.

Which one can you shoot better?

by the way, at 100 yds the 123 still wins, having 1175 ke compared to the ablr, 1046.
Matter of fact the eldm seems to have higher ke all the way from 0 - 150 yds, and less drop also.

I personally like both of them, when I can get the ablr to group. That's the hardest part for me.

[v4lu3s]

I would consider the factory SST over the factory ELD-M as it has nearly identical ballistics is similarly priced and is designed for hunting. I actually get slightly better accuracy with the SST over the ELD-M.

[Hose monkey]

I couldn’t get the Nosler ABLR’s to group out of my gun. But if you can get them accurate, it’s the way to go.

[MonsterShooter]

The ABLR is my go to, but I’m also using a 20” tube.

[lazyengineer]

I can't get ABLR's to group in my guns either. I don't really care for that bullet, as it's just too difficult to get to shoot.

As to weight, I personally don't care for the >123 gr class bullets in Grendel. I find I can't get them going fast enough to keep up. The metric I use are 2 factors (beyond accuracy that is)
1) Distance to 1000 ft-lb impact energy
2) Distance to transsonic destabilization

In my loads and in my guns, 123 gr weight class outperforms 129 gr weight class of almost any bullet, on those two metrics.

In a 12", things get even more interesting because the velocities are just going to be low: 2300-2400fps range. That's already pretty slow. Yet, with 6.5 bullets, they are so efficient, you can still get close to 600 yards supersonic with a 12", and you can still even get 1000 ft-lb impact energy at 100 yards with one, with the right load. What I have found is that maximum distance for items 1 and 2, tends to be best served with the 123 class bullets. But back to the point of that being slow - slow means not-flat-shooting. I actually tend to run 90gr TNT's hunting a lot, based on the frequent posts here from DNS who has slayed 1000 hogs so far, and loves that bullet, and gets great results. I like it because it's light, which means fast, which means shoots flatter in that 100 yard range application; and 100 yards doesn't bleed that much from the lower BC 90 gr bullet. 12" gun is a great field hunting gun, but you need to be in the 100 yard range class or so, or good at range estimating and accounting for that drop.

Here, this was taken with 12" at about 120 yards with a 90 gr and 1 shot.

[LRRPF52]

With CFE223 under the 129gr ABLR, you should be able to reach 2230fps with 30.4gr from a 12” pipe. That gives you:

150yds 2019fps 1168ft-lbs (1.6” low with a 100yd zero)

With a 50yd zero, you’ll be .8” high at 100, .4” low at 150, and 3.7” low at 200.

You can also train with the 123gr and then confirm zero with 129gr, use it for game day.

For reference, a 20” barrel .30-30 Winchester spitting a 150gr RN at 2250fps with .186 G1 BC is:

150yds 1648fps 904ft-lbs 1.4” low (with 50yd zero)

[LRRPF52]

For the 129gr ABLR, you’ll want a VLD seating stem and double-seat operation where you partially seat, turn the cartridge, then fully-seat.

[grendelnubi]

I hunted with a 12.7" for several years with good success. I'm at sea level so the best velocity I could get was using the 123 American Gunner at 2277 fps. Second highest velocity was the 123 Hornady Black at 2230. With 30 grains of CFE and 123 SST, it was 2193 fps. With 129 ABLR using 26.9 ARComp, I could get 2174 fps. If it were me, I would either go with the factory 123 SST or Hornady Black 123 ELDM.

[imaguy3]

For what it's worth I tested the outer expansion limits of 123sst and 123eldm as I intended on using them at 400-600 yrds for deer out here. Here are some images of expansion they exhibited at low velocities, since you're starting low. I currently am using 123gr eldm as my main load.

This is what my 123gr eldm was doing at the time of impact.


Through the bottom of the jug and caught in the back milk jug.

[imaguy3]

This is 123gr sst. This was at 477yrds and 1611fps per my notes. This was into several water jugs and a sandbag as a backer to catch. This was pulled from the sandbag.

Although it's still together in the pics. The core and jacket came apart easily by hand.







The bullet in the background is a 123gr american gunner I was testing too

[imaguy3]

At your distances don't overthink the matter. Choose the round that shoots best in your gun and send it. They will all perform well at the use you intend it for, so long as you put the bullet where it needs to be.

Personally I would suggest you go with 123sst or eldm, factory available if you don't want to load, and a higher speed (which gives you a further mpbr)...

[lazyengineer]

Wow, that is a great set of posts

[imaguy3]

Here's pics from a whitetail I shot a cple yrs back with 123gr sst, muzzle velocity around 2350. Deer was standing about 75 yards away.

Entry




exit


(blood shot in middle is oblong hole)

[imaguy3]

They're small little things