advice needed on reloading dies

[Matthius]

With 6.5 Grendel being a really niche cartridge, I knew that reloading would be a necessity.

I did some reading on the forum and it appears, that you generally recommend Hornady set for semi-autos and Redding Type S for bolt action.

https://www.65grendel.com/forum/forum/-6-5-grendel-discussion-forums/-6-5-grendel-ammunition-reloading/20067-dies?utm_source=chatgpt.com

My usual choice for plinking ammo is Hornady FL on their AP press.
For precision .223 Rem and .308 Win, I split the process - Redding body die, followed by Lee collet and a 21st Century expander last. Significantly cheaper than bushing dies, producing consistent neck tension and very low runout.

I can get the Lee collet die and the 6.5 expander and within days in Poland.
The body die, however, will not be available sooner than in December.

I'm tempted to buy a readily available Redding Type S die instead. If I'm correct, without the bushing, it will act just like a more expensive body die (115$ vs 70$).

OR - I can just ditch the Lee collet altogether from the process and buy an appropriate bushing (.287 for the Hornady brass).
This will cost me 30$ for a steel bushing, or 50$ for a TiN bushing, but I will save about 40$ skipping the collet die.


All in all, the cost of either of the above would be:
~200$ for the collet, body die and expander
~225$ for type S die with TiN bushing and expander
~164$ for type S die with TiN bushing, no expander mandrel

And I still need a decent seater, preferably with a micrometer.
On the other hand - I see that the Hornady set 546291 is available, and it costs here "only" 77$.


Shall I stick with the general recommendation and buy Hornady?
Use it "as is", or remove the expander ball and use a dedicated die with expander mandrel?

Or try the type S die? If so - go for TiN or steel bushing?

What do you think?

[Klem]

Matthius,

I use a Forster full-length without the expander ball. It imparts a .004" interference neck grip. The Redding standard FL does not impart enough grip. I anneal every time before sizing. If using a semi-auto you'll need to at least partial FL size to ensure reliable cycling.

Forster standard FL with expander = .0035" interference fit when seating (OK, but works the brass more).
Forster standard FL without expander - .004" interference fit (perfect).
Redding standard FL with expander - .0005" fit (grip too light and works the brass).
Redding standard FL without expander - .009" fit (you would then need a mandrel to open it up some).

Only one sizing step with the Forster. No need for bushings or mandrels.

[wheelguner]

Klem, what do you use for case annealing?

[A5Blaster Number 2]

I'm using a Foster full length for the ar grendels.

A Foster micro meter seater for both ar and bolt grendel bullet seating needs.

And a Redding bushing neck die and body die combo for the bot grendel sizing needs.

[Klem]

Klem, what do you use for case annealing?

Guner,

I put together the same system as this guy on youtube. He has since uploaded a follow-up video called Part 2 Tips and Tricks. It's a lot cheaper than the dedicated AMP annealer.

Annealer. - Copy.jpg


It works fine. The timers can be sourced on Amazon (spare example top left of photo). Have tried a few different coils diameters and thicknesses and settled on the one at the bottom.

[wheelguner]

Thanks Klem!

[Matthius]

Klem & A5 - thanks, that's a lot of useful info here.

If I may ask - why do you consider a .004" a perfect fit? Is that a Grendel thing?
I found .002" best for my .223, and .003" for the .308 (both are semi-autos).

Forster dies are very nice, I own a micrometer seater for my AR-10 in .308 Win.
I'll check, how much time it will take to get them in Poland.

[Klem]

If I may ask - why do you consider a .004" a perfect fit? Is that a Grendel thing?

Matthius,

Good question because it's not just the interference difference between a sized and loaded case - it's about grip. For example, I can over-anneal brass to the point it is plastic, but then when the bullet is seated you can pull it back out with just your fingers. So in that scenario it doesn't matter what the interference fit is because there's no grip. The neck expands as the bullet is seated but there's no spring-back to grip it. This is why I anneal before sizing, to re-introduce some work-hardening so there is adequate spring-back to grip.

.004 is a decent interference fit, coupled with decent spring-back will grip the bullet enough to oppose being bashed around on loading in a semi-auto. It's not necessarily a 'Grendel thing' but it's about the type of action and typical bullet weight and neck surface area. If your necks have enough grip with only .002" interference to resist the bullet moving on being violently loaded then that's great. I use .002" for bolt gun interference by using a 0.2625" mandrel. The neck springs back to .2620" and then seats a .2640" bullet. In a precision bolt gun I prefer less grip.

No guarantee Forster has not changed their die dimensions but I use Forster for both sizing and seating. Forster is good value for money.

[Matthius]

Thank you for the explanation. Agreed, the bullet needs a proper grip to resist the inertia during semi-auto loading process.
So basically, you found that .004" interference provided a consistent, reliable grip for your 6.5 Gr reloads.

In a day or two, I will know how much the set would cost and whether it can be delivered this year.
If not, I may need to purchase whatever is available.

I wonder, how much interference will the Hornady FL die produce. Can someone please post the info?

[A5Blaster Number 2]

Thank you for the explanation. Agreed, the bullet needs a proper grip to resist the inertia during semi-auto loading process.
So basically, you found that .004" interference provided a consistent, reliable grip for your 6.5 Gr reloads.

In a day or two, I will know how much the set would cost and whether it can be delivered this year.
If not, I may need to purchase whatever is available.

I wonder, how much interference will the Hornady FL die produce. Can someone please post the info?

If this is for a AR-15 platform grendel. The Hornady full length die will work just fine. It's what I started with, that and a Hornady seating die with their micrometer head.

Reason I changed was midway was having a great sale and I got a birthday discount a few years ago.So while I was buying the bushing neck die/body die combo for my bolt action grendel, I went ahead and upgraded my ar grendel sizing die.

I don't have any notes that I'm awhere of for how much neck tention the Hornady die or the Foster die gives my various types of grendel brass. Because that's a information point I don't track for the ar grendel's.

I do know how much neck tention i get with various types of grendel brass through my bushing neck die. As I feel it's worth it, in the bolt action grendel's.

[Matthius]

A5 - did you use the Hornady FL with or without the expander?

[A5Blaster Number 2]

A5 - did you use the Hornady FL with or without the expander?

Off the top of my head, with the expander.

For the ar grendels I pretty much just roll with how the die is made. I measure for shoulder set back too get good chambering clearance, that's it.

Now the bolt grendel. That's different, I'm going all out in that rifle platform.

[VASCAR2]

I’m a hobbyist reloader and I bought the Hornady Custom 2 die set after purchasing my first 6.5 Grendel in about 2010. I don’t know how many thousand rounds I’ve loaded with those dies without issue. This was my first set of Hornady dies and I liked them but Brownell’s had a set of RCBS 264 LBC dies Full Length Taper Crimp dies on sale really cheap. Most all my other dies were RCBS so I bought them as a spare set. I used them a few time but broke the decapping pin which is non standard size. I couldn’t find the decapping pin but RCBS sent me a few spares free of charge.

I later bought a Forster full length sizing die to try as they are recommended. Once cleaned and adjusted the Forster sizing die works good but I haven’t seen in any difference in the quality of my reloads compared to reloads using the Hornady dies. The only die that gets negative reviews on this forum are the Lee 6.5 Grendel sizing die. The Lee sizing die tends to over work the brass shortening case life. A friend has a set of Lee 6.5 Grendel dies but he hasn’t loaded his 6.5 Grendel brass enough times to encounter any problems.

I have yet to encounter any problems with brass to bullet adhesion. I’m more focused on reliability in several AR-15’s and my Cz 527 than prize winning accuracy. For the money Hornady Custom sizing die with a competition seating die are pretty economical but functional. It really boils down to personal choice, what is available and what you are willing to spend.

Here is the link to the Hornady dies I purchased.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011077269?pid=374677

[lazyengineer]

KLem's path is the way to go.

Another route that I'm still doing (probably not ideal), is Hornady die with the expander removed, and I just mandrel the neck to size right before charging and seating. Problem with that is most factory non-bushing does constrict the neck way too much, and work the brass. Neck splits are my most common route to failure. So much so I anneal now, specifically for Grendel neck splits. It helps.

[Matthius]

All good info, thank you.

I've just got a quotation for Forster set UO4257 (FL + micrometer seater) - 280$.
Expected delivery - December.

The seller also offered a less expensive alternative: Redding 80478 (FL + standard seater) - $160
The seater can be upgraded with optional micrometer for either VLD or STD bullets - 65$.
Both items will be available within a day or two.

I understand Redding dies are top notch, their FL sizes cases reliably for semi-auto rifles.
So perhaps, given the pricing and availability, Redding will be an optimal choice for me?

Or should I stick with either Hornady or Forster?