Accuracy compareson of of groups using Hornady brass to Lapua.

[T-snipe]

I'm curious if anyone has done a comparison of the groups shot, between using Hornady Brass and Lapua? All other components would be the same as well as the powder and charge weight.

[LR1955]

I'm curious if anyone has done a comparison of the groups shot, between using Hornady Brass and Lapua? All other components would be the same as well as the powder and charge weight.

TS:

A couple of guys have done so. Run a search and you may find the threads.

There is no difference in accuracy. However, the Lapua brass is much more durable so for the money, it is probably a better way to go.

How many loadings? About ten for the Hornady brass and up to 20 for the Lapua. Four to six for the Wolf brass.

Do you need to trim any of these makes of brass? Not until you have shot it enough for it to lengthen. How many firings is that? Depends on your load and the chamber.

Do you need to anneal any of this brass? Absolutely not.

Do you need to neck turn any of this brass? Absolutely not.

Do you need to ream primer pockets? Absolutely not.

Do you need to segregate the brass by weight? Nope.

Did I forget anything?

LR1955

[T-snipe]

Say LR,
That's a very comprehensive answer for sure, more than expected but appreciated.

I thought I did do a search and nothing came up, anyway you more than answered my question. I didn't figure it should matter but thought I check to see what others might have found out.

I did chamfer the the inside and outside of the necks of Hornady Brass as well as debur the inside flash holes too on 300 cartridges.




I'll let everyone know how my comparison shots turn out and post some images. I still have the 100 yard 3/8" string target I shot prior.

[LR1955]

Say LR,
That's a very comprehensive answer for sure, more than expected but appreciated.

I thought I did do a search and nothing came up, anyway you more than answered my question. I didn't figure it should matter but thought I check to see what others might have found out.

I did chamfer the the inside and outside of the necks of Hornady Brass as well as debur the inside flash holes too on 300 cartridges.




I'll let everyone know how my comparison shots turn out and post some images. I still have the 100 yard 3/8" string target I shot prior.

TS:

Chamfering the necks is normal procedure as you know. Anything else for a gas gun will probably do more damage to the brass than good. I would say if you owned a bolt action, $5K bench rifle then you probably would go through all the rituals done by guys who compete in bench rest competition, even if none of them had been proven to be of value. That is the nature of the beast.

Before you try to compare Lapua to Hornady brass as a predictor of accuracy, you better eliminate all the other variables or at least be able to account for them in statistical terms. Lets say the Hornady brass has a slightly larger internal case capacity than the Lapua. This is a major issue in terms of pressure, thus velocity, thus potential accuracy. So, you devise a load that shoots great from the Hornady brass but not as good from the Lapua. Does this mean the Lapua brass isn't as good? On the other hand, lets say you found a load that shot great using the Lapua brass but it wasn't quite as good with the Hornady. This doesn't mean the Lapua brass is a predictor of accuracy, either.

100 yard shooting is another problem with such comparisons. If both are very close, you won't be able to measure group sizes well enough. 100 yard shooting normally gives a very false sense of performance and, unless the groups really suck, is not a predictor of true performance. At 200, you begin to see differences that predict downrange performance. At 300, you probably have an ideal distance for testing.

Where the brass differs is in durability. I still have some Lapua brass I bought from Alexander about eight or ten years ago. The headstamps are worn off but the primer pockets are still tight. I have shot them through three or four chambers over the years and have had to trim them once or maybe twice. I don't even think I had to trim them but did anyway. The Hornady brass will give you six or ten firings before it craps out. Lapua stuff will go twenty and maybe even more. For a gas gun, there is your difference.

You would be surprised at how little the brass actually means to performance with a gas operated rifle. Or any rifle outside of the bench rest classifications and maybe F class, for that matter.

Your time may be better spent with load development?

LR1955

[Drifter]

TS:

Before you try to compare Lapua to Hornady brass as a predictor of accuracy, you better eliminate all the other variables or at least be able to account for them in statistical terms.

Yep. If you use Competition S-type bushing dies, the best bushing size for one brass might not be the best for another. And the amount of the neck resized could differ. And this might change by bullet selection. And what's best in your chamber and barrel might not be best in someone else's. And.... well, you probably get the point by now.

If your goal is to use the best quality Grendel brass, Lapua / AA is it. You can tweak your reloading procedures until you get the results you seek.

[ricsmall]

since we are on the subject, how do you guys loads compare charge weight size between hornady and lapua brass? Ive been toying around with both and notice some difference in velocity, but my gun seems to punish the lapua brass more in the rim area. Anyone else seeing this?

[T-snipe]

TS:

Chamfering the necks is normal procedure as you know. Anything else for a gas gun will probably do more damage to the brass than good. I would say if you owned a bolt action, $5K bench rifle then you probably would go through all the rituals done by guys who compete in bench rest competition, even if none of them had been proven to be of value. That is the nature of the beast.

Before you try to compare Lapua to Hornady brass as a predictor of accuracy, you better eliminate all the other variables or at least be able to account for them in statistical terms. Lets say the Hornady brass has a slightly larger internal case capacity than the Lapua. This is a major issue in terms of pressure, thus velocity, thus potential accuracy. So, you devise a load that shoots great from the Hornady brass but not as good from the Lapua. Does this mean the Lapua brass isn't as good? On the other hand, lets say you found a load that shot great using the Lapua brass but it wasn't quite as good with the Hornady. This doesn't mean the Lapua brass is a predictor of accuracy, either.

100 yard shooting is another problem with such comparisons. If both are very close, you won't be able to measure group sizes well enough. 100 yard shooting normally gives a very false sense of performance and, unless the groups really suck, is not a predictor of true performance. At 200, you begin to see differences that predict downrange performance. At 300, you probably have an ideal distance for testing.

Where the brass differs is in durability. I still have some Lapua brass I bought from Alexander about eight or ten years ago. The headstamps are worn off but the primer pockets are still tight. I have shot them through three or four chambers over the years and have had to trim them once or maybe twice. I don't even think I had to trim them but did anyway. The Hornady brass will give you six or ten firings before it craps out. Lapua stuff will go twenty and maybe even more. For a gas gun, there is your difference.

You would be surprised at how little the brass actually means to performance with a gas operated rifle. Or any rifle outside of the bench rest classifications and maybe F class, for that matter.

Your time may be better spent with load development?

LR1955

Say LR, Again you bring up some good points which I'm also aware of, such as the difference in case capacity and difference in pressure while keeping everything else the same, it definitely can have a bearing on accuracy. That was one of the things I was wondering about too. So far I have kept everything as is possible the same. I'm not attempting to do match reloading for target shooting but rather attempting to maintain the best consistency I can obtain from my Hornady Auto Progressive press. My reasoning is that if the shit hits the fan I want to be able to produce my rounds with as little fuss as possible. The rounds that I shot a 3 shot 3/8" string came off this press used in progressive fashion from their New Dimension dies and Lapua brass. Which btw I was/am set up with them to buy for resale but there was no margin to work with in small quanties.

I am shootinng a complete AA Grendel 24" upper from several years back in standard gas configuration as well as shooting is standard semi-auto mode too. I'm using std CCi small rifle primers with 25.2 grns of Benchmark powder and a Hornady 120grn balistic tip BT bullet. I also realize that shooting at 100 yards doesn't give a good example of the bullets flight and have extended my range out to about 195 yrds. Why not to 200, the hill side I'm shooting along is so steep that just past the target stand pad I I put in the ground had given way and slid down about 25ft. Any way after I see and possibly adjust the powder charge I'm anxious to see what the characteristics are at this greater distance. Yes 300 or more yards would be great but I can't conveniently shoot that far without making a trek up the hill.

So now that I have some of the Hornady brass loaded I'll have to test it out and maybe adjust the load?

[T-snipe]

Yep. If you use Competition S-type bushing dies, the best bushing size for one brass might not be the best for another. And the amount of the neck resized could differ. And this might change by bullet selection. And what's best in your chamber and barrel might not be best in someone else's. And.... well, you probably get the point by now.

If your goal is to use the best quality Grendel brass, Lapua / AA is it. You can tweak your reloading procedures until you get the results you seek.

Thanks Drifter,
Well Lapua is what I was using initially but it was a bit too costly for me. Also I found it to be a bit too soft as I'm not sure if they smelt their own their own Brass or not but it seems they use more Cooper than Tin etc in the mixture making it a bit softer.

But as I said in my answer to LR, I'm attempting to keep things simplified in my reloading so I can reproduce the rounds fairly easily while maintaining fairly good accuracy if things happen.
I've known a couple of guys from your area.

[LR1955]

Say LR, Again you bring up some good points which I'm also aware of, such as the difference in case capacity and difference in pressure while keeping everything else the same, it definitely can have a bearing on accuracy. That was one of the things I was wondering about too. So far I have kept everything as is possible the same. I'm not attempting to do match reloading for target shooting but rather attempting to maintain the best consistency I can obtain from my Hornady Auto Progressive press. My reasoning is that if the shit hits the fan I want to be able to produce my rounds with as little fuss as possible. The rounds that I shot a 3 shot 3/8" string came off this press used in progressive fashion from their New Dimension dies and Lapua brass. Which btw I was/am set up with them to buy for resale but there was no margin to work with in small quanties.

I am shootinng a complete AA Grendel 24" upper from several years back in standard gas configuration as well as shooting is standard semi-auto mode too. I'm using std CCi small rifle primers with 25.2 grns of Benchmark powder and a Hornady 120grn balistic tip BT bullet. I also realize that shooting at 100 yards doesn't give a good example of the bullets flight and have extended my range out to about 195 yrds. Why not to 200, the hill side I'm shooting along is so steep that just past the target stand pad I I put in the ground had given way and slid down about 25ft. Any way after I see and possibly adjust the powder charge I'm anxious to see what the characteristics are at this greater distance. Yes 300 or more yards would be great but I can't conveniently shoot that far without making a trek up the hill.

So now that I have some of the Hornady brass loaded I'll have to test it out and maybe adjust the load?

TS:

I doubt you will see any differences between the Hornady and Lapua brass given the same powder charge. Someone here has measured the inside capacity of each and I believe they are identical. If not, then very close.

There is no such thing as 'match' reloading. Many match shooters use progressive presses, even for their long range loads. The steps you are following and your end state is no different than what many of us take to load for High Power, Three Gun, or any competitive event where a guy is using a gas gun.

Do shoot the brass one time before doing your test. I believe there is something to the notion that tests are best done after the brass has been fired one time.

LR1955

[hobbesgunner]

I reload/ reproduce the factory Hornady rounds with 123 Amax's.....and Lapua brass get's 108 Scenars.....just because it "feels" like the right thing to do..I'm sure the difference would be above my trigger ability anyhoo.....