Leverevolution-Grendel evolution

[Nimrod]

I am getting 2600 with a 20" barrel, please let me know what you get with the 24" barrel.

[Nimrod]

I ran some swift scirrocos and some hornady sst bullets with LVR today.

130 gr scirroco
30.2 gr LVR
CCI 450 primer
20" barrel
2420 fps average
3/4-1" groups

129gr sst
31 gr LVR
2465 fps average
1" groups

The 129 sst has the same point of impact at 100 yards as my 123 amax so I think it will work as a hunting bullet for me.

The LVR does not seem to give the above average performance with the bigger bullets as it does.with the 123 gr.bullets.

[steel89]

Scirocco/Leverevolution



Nimrod,
You show the Scirocco at 2420fps using 30.2 gr of LR, I am curious if you went up to 31gr as you did with the 129SST. Did you have pressure signs or did the 30.2 just group better. I am looking for a comparison with the 8208 vs LR for the heavier bullets and would be happy with the upper 2400's if I can get a good group. I have no clue as yet what to start the 8208 loads at, or if it is as sensitive as TAC to small load variations. If you could give me any insite I would appreciate it. I loaded sets today at 90+ degs and I hope that won't be a problem.

[Nimrod]

Scirocco/Leverevolution



Nimrod,
You show the Scirocco at 2420fps using 30.2 gr of LR, I am curious if you went up to 31gr as you did with the 129SST. Did you have pressure signs or did the 30.2 just group better. I am looking for a comparison with the 8208 vs LR for the heavier bullets and would be happy with the upper 2400's if I can get a good group. I have no clue as yet what to start the 8208 loads at, or if it is as sensitive as TAC to small load variations. If you could give me any insite I would appreciate it. I loaded sets today at 90+ degs and I hope that won't be a problem.

Hey steel,

30.2 was as far as I went with the Scirrocos, they are longer than the 129 sst and I felt 30.2 was pushing it on compression, I could feel it when I was seating bullets. I actually ended up backing off to 29.8 and was still getting 2400 out of it, and they shot better with that load. I was able to ghetto the 29.8 load to print one .5" 5 shot group, but couldn't repeat it.

Also be aware I spoke to Hodgdon and they told me LVR is temp sensitive. I live and shoot in Alaska where it doesn't. Get that hot, but at 90 degrees I would use caution, if you have experience with other temp sensitive powders in hot weather I would treat LVR the same way you do them.

I used 8208 behind 130 Accubonds and 27.2 was as high as I would go with them, but I started out lower.

[steel89]

The temperature sensitivity worries me, so until I can get some direct feedback from Hornady on what to expect, I'll hold off on the Sciroccos. I wonder if compression would be less of a problem with the 8208 since it's using three grains less per load. It is not as compact a powder as the LVR which may mean that 27.2g of 8208 is about the same volume as 30.2g of LVR. At this stage of my reloading experiance I'm not real comfortable developing loads that other more experianced people haven't worked with much. I've loaded and shot the 8208 at temp and humidity levels in the low to mid 90's with no problems, soI'll stick with that for now.

[steel89]

Hogdon explained the LRV temperature sensitivity to me this way. If you load at 90deg and shoot at 90deg......no problem. If you load at a low temp and shoot at a high temp that is when the pressures get out of hand. I should be good on my loads, so I'll keep you posted.

[hugh]

logic tells me that 30gr at 90 deg. is still 30gr at 25 deg...loads worked up at 90deg ok fired at 90deg. loads worked up at 25deg then fired at 25 deg.ok
loads worked up at 25 deg. then fired at 90 deg.not ok...

[bwaites]

logic tells me that 30gr at 90 deg. is still 30gr at 25 deg...loads worked up at 90deg ok fired at 90deg. loads worked up at 25deg then fired at 25 deg.ok
loads worked up at 25 deg. then fired at 90 deg.not ok...

I think that is what he is saying....loads should be used at temps close to where they were worked up. You can certainly shoot loads worked up at high temps at lower temps, but not vice versa.

That said, I'm not sure that 60 degrees is enough to make a significant difference with todays powders, but you can never be too careful, just like you can never be too rich!

[z06man]

Why does the loading temp effect the firing temp? I can understand if you mean load development temp. Otherwise the only difference should be a humidity change within the cartridge case.

[hugh]

Why does the loading temp effect the firing temp? I can understand if you mean load development temp. Otherwise the only difference should be a humidity change within the cartridge case.

Yes I think they left out the key word "developed"
As with any temp sensitive powder, any load developed for most potential (acc/press) in the winter should be tweeked a little less in the summer...

[steel89]

From what I have read this is a simplified breakdown of the problem, please correct me if I'm wrong:
If you develop a max or near max load using a temperature sensitive powder at cold temperatures, the powder will have an increased burn rate and pressure increase at high temperatures and will probably put your near max loads above the safe threshold for that firearm. Some believe 80deg is the breakpoint - load under 80deg shoot up to 75 deg. Loaded over 80deg and shooting above is no problem but when you shoot at a lower temp, you may lose velocity and your accuracy may be affected, but the extreme pressures shouldn't be a factor.
I know that the Grendel can experiance high pressures from loads which are too light, so I don't know if (in Alaska or Minn) an extreme can work in reverse ie. a light load developed at high tems and shot at say 17 deg below.

[z06man]

So if I develop a load at 103, like it has been day after day now, I should be safe year round. I don't forsee any trips to Death Valley or the Sahara in my immeditate future.

[steel89]

Call me from the Artic, let me know how it shoots

[z06man]

We hit negative temps this last winter. That would be an interesting experiment. I'm definitely going to have to get a chrono.

[terrywick4]

Yes I think they left out the key word "developed"
As with any temp sensitive powder, any load developed for most potential (acc/press) in the winter should be tweeked a little less in the summer...

The easiest way to explain is: If you develop a load of 29 grains with a temp sensitive powder at 20 degrees and it velocity is say 2400 fps with a pressure of 35,000. The same load of 29 grains (regardless of when it was loaded) that is shot at 90 degrees will have an increased velocity (of say 2500 fps ) and pressure (of 45,000) THAT IS WHY IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT THAT WHEN YOU ARE USING TEMP SENSITIVE POWDER TO DEVELOPE THE LOAD IN THE CONDITIONS THAT IT IS GOING TO BE USED!!