Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside.

[JASmith]

Actually you said "It is dangerous in the Grendel with bullets over about 85 grains."

That's a far cry from "if you can't find the powder listed..."

Truth time:

Full quote from LR 1955:

We thought Reloader 10X would be the 'Unicorn' powder as well. It is dangerous in the Grendel with bullets over about 85 grains.

The pressures will go up dramatically when you reduce the neck size and you are reducing the neck size significantly if you go from a 6.8 or .30 caliber down to a 6.5.

If you can't find this powder listed in any of the numerous loading manuals for the Grendel, you best stay away from it.

He said both, and the qualifier indicates the advice is cautionary with two parts. LR55's experience is extensive, and experienced reloaders err on the side of caution, especially with powders that tend to produce high velocities with low charge weights.

His second post acknowledged that reliable and credible information has surfaced that at least partially overrides his first cautionary comment.

General comment:

Quoting out of context can be dangerous and lead to untoward responses by a lot of folks. This forum is dedicated to honest exploration of ideas and experiences. It is OK to question, but make sure you have your facts straight before asking for clarification.

Above all, do not make disparaging remarks, especially when quoting out of context and making the earlier poster seem to be less than honest.

[ragedracer1977]

Truth time:

Full quote from LR 1955:


He said both, and the qualifier indicates the advice is cautionary with two parts. LR55's experience is extensive, and experienced reloaders err on the side of caution, especially with powders that tend to produce high velocities with low charge weights.

His second post acknowledged that reliable and credible information has surfaced that at least partially overrides his first cautionary comment.

General comment:

Quoting out of context can be dangerous and lead to untoward responses by a lot of folks. This forum is dedicated to honest exploration of ideas and experiences. It is OK to question, but make sure you have your facts straight before asking for clarification.

Above all, do not make disparaging remarks, especially when quoting out of context and making the earlier poster seem to be less than honest.

It wasn't taken out of context. He flat out said Reloader 10x was dangerous in the Grendel with bullets above 85 grains. There was no qualification.

The second part of the quote was referring to 1200.

They are completely separate statements.

[JASmith]

So quibling with English syntax is an acceptable form of query? The term 'this' can be inferred to either powder and that is the way I interpreted the comments the first two times I read it. On a fourth and fifth reading, I can see that the term can be inferred to apply to just one powder. We all get sloppy with English from time to time.

The point is that one can raise questions about these issues. Gratuitous challenges are neither polite nor welcomed here.

[mseric]

So quibling with English syntax is an acceptable form of query? The term 'this' can be inferred to either powder and that is the way I interpreted the comments the first two times I read it. On a fourth and fifth reading, I can see that the term can be inferred to apply to just one powder. We all get sloppy with English from time to time.

The point is that one can raise questions about these issues. Gratuitous challenges are neither polite nor welcomed here.

At the risk of being "not welcome here", I present you the following comments on Reloader 10X.

I tried RL-10X and found it dangerous to use with the Grendel and any weight bullet. Note I didn't say 'hot', I said 'dangerous'. Shortly after I mentioned this on the old forum, Alexander advised us strongly not to use RL-10X with the Grendel.

LR55

As an example, when Reloader 10X came out it appeared to be an extruded powder ideal for the Grendel. Some of us tired it, me included, and found it to be dangerous unless you were using bullets weighing under 90 grains and then used very light loads. Certaninly nothing coming close to a 90% case fill. Alexander confirmed this and cautioned us against using it although it appeared to be a good powder. I don't think Alexander ever figured out why it was dangerous in a Grendel case but it sure was. Anyone who had loaded more conventional cartridges like a .308 would have assumed that 10X ought to be great in the Grendel.

I think about the best extruded powder we have found for the Grendel is 8208 XBR.

LR1955

I could post more, but you get the point. No getting sloppy with the English Language here. It has been repeated many times.

My concern is who is correct? Hornady and Nosler or the Grendel forum?

[JASmith]

Mseric,

Thanks for doing the research!

My best guess -- Both are correct. Hornady and Nosler have access to pressure test equipment, and good communication with the powder manufacturers. As a result, they can do things that we can't with our tools.

We see a similar situation with LeverEvolution. I have been directly advised by Hodgdon ballisticians to not try the powder in chambers they haven't already posted loads for. The rational: the powder doesn't always behave the same going from one chamber to another and can develop high pressures much sooner than expected.

[Ludeconduct]

Soooooo will PP 1200-r work in the Grendel?

[JASmith]

Soooooo will PP 1200-r work in the Grendel?

The Alliant help desk flatly stated that the powder is not suitable for the Grendel.

On the other hand load data for the 7.63x39, the 22-250, and 30-30 suggests that safe loads might be doable, particularly for the lighter bullets. Note the qualifier "might be". This means that we do not know.

The situation might be similar to what we see with LeverEvolution -- Hodgdon does not recommend it, yet some have worked up loads and either consciously or unwittingly accepted the potential added risks.

The earlier comments about RL10X suggests that at least one or two Horde members have discovered unpleasant surprises when using it. This experience tells us that the risks are real.

[Ludeconduct]

I don't plan on using it. Thanks for all the input. Did not intend to start an unpleasant discussion.

[biggdawg]

just for some input, i am in testing 1200r with my 270AR that has 44-45 grains case capacity, it is working well with the lighter bullets 85 - 120gn, don't see why it wouldn't work with the grendel too.

[mseric]

Mseric,

Thanks for doing the research!

My best guess -- Both are correct. Hornady and Nosler have access to pressure test equipment, and good communication with the powder manufacturers. As a result, they can do things that we can't with our tools.

We see a similar situation with LeverEvolution. I have been directly advised by Hodgdon ballisticians to not try the powder in chambers they haven't already posted loads for. The rational: the powder doesn't always behave the same going from one chamber to another and can develop high pressures much sooner than expected.

I guess, for the sake of safety and discussion it would be helpful if those that found 10X "dangerous" posted their load data, and all related details that brought them to the "dangerous" conclusion.

Then we could at least compare what Hornady and Nosler list as safe against those that found it unsafe.

[woohoo]

27.8gr 10X behind the 100gr Lapua and Nosler BT has been a favorite load of mine since 2007.

That same load in a 6mmAR with the 95SMK will scatter rifle parts all over.

[mseric]

I sent Alliant an email the other day asking if 1200-R would work in the Grendel. Here is their reply.

: I have no tested data for 1200-R (or any other powder) for use in the 6.5 Grendel. Sorry, no help here. Try Hornady.

Shoot Straight!
Coy Getman
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
Sr. Technical Coord. Alliant / CCI / SPEER
(866) 286-7436

Didn't say it wouldn't work, but again were less than helpful.

[JASmith]

Might have been less than helpful, but it appears that this responders at least checked the data.

I think liability scares a lot of these folks into a strongly cautious stance.

[LR1955]

Some of you guys need to shoot more. I certainly ain't going to get into an argument with people over this subject.

In the days when the only data was from AA, we tested a lot of powders. Some worked well and others that should have worked were dangerous.

There is no need to experiment anymore. Enough companies have good load data where a guy doesn't need to risk their eyesight and or body parts.

I stand behind my statement about RL 10 X and the Grendel unless one is shooting very light bullets. I bet Alexander will do the same since he did the same when we started experimenting with that powder.

I tried RL10X with 107 Sierra's. 27 and 28 grains. I shot five shots and that was it. No blown up rifle, no blown primers but the feel and sound was not right at all. The Lapua brass was heavily swiped, primers cratered, and were one shot brass. The velocities were very high. Competitive in fact. However, the powder was spiking pressures way too high and fast. It was extremely dangerous although by the various burn rate charts, it should have been fine. It wasn't.

So, this thread is locked.

LR1955