A bad day at the range, beats a great day at the office.

[cory]

I took a trip to the range today for the fist time since late last fall. After about an hour of shooting, I was about ready to tear my rifle down and rebuild her making sure everything was torqued. It was the first time I've used my suppressor on a warmer day (72F). I suspect the suppressor heating up was affecting my accuracy. I'll need to do further testing on a better day to verify.

The winds were gnarly to say the least. For the most part it was half value winds with large gusts between at the bench, between the 100 yard and 200 yard berm, between the 200 yard and 300 yard berm, or some combination. The winds were acting like a bipolar.schizophrenic girlfriend at that week. It was constantly changing directions.

I ran into an experienced guy at the range and told him what I was expecting. He said he'd experienced days like that at this range were he got similar results due to the wind. I'll go try a different place to shoot before I blame the rifle.

I was shooting almost exclusively Hornady factory AMAX other than some load work. I only tracked the velocity of a small sample of what I shoot, but none the less I got a huge STD (40 fps) in velocity.
2427 2467 2398 2375 2381 2450 2473 2470

This was an early 200 yard target. POAs were all over the place, not just dead center of any target.


I discarded the suppressor and saw an immediate improvement. (SDN-6) In its defense I was incredibly pleased the initial accuracy of it at 100 yards, in the cold at Rebel's shop.

Things calmed down long enough for me to see what this rifle is capable of at 300 yards. The following a target at 300 yards an adjustment up then back down got me right on target.

The winds died off just long enough for me to pull of this little beauty.

The following was a ladder test of Barnes 127gr LRX and Nosler 129gr ABLR, both used Hornady virgin brass ,CCI 450 primers, and CFE 223.


The 127gr LRX. This is what not to do. I may have started at max pressure. I was using the super chrono and wasn't able to monitor the velocity as I was shooting. If anyone is interested in trying this combination, I'd suggest starting below 28grs.
Charge (gr) Velocity (fps)
29..... 2221.0
29.3 ..... 2237.0
29.6 .....2263.0
29.9 .....2257.0
30.2 .....2319.0
30.5 .....2378.0
30.8 .....2322.0
31.1..... 2421.0
31.4..... 2375.0

The 129gr Nosler ABLR
Charge (gr) Velocity (fps)
28.4..... 2208.0
28.7..... 2227.0
29..... 2257.0
29.3..... 2251.0
29.6..... 2260.0
29.9..... 2303.0
30.2..... 2309.0

I may have something at 29.3gr to 29.9gr. 30.2gr was max fill at 2.294 COL. 30.5gr was so compressed the press caved in the nose during loading.

I won't even display the Nosler 123gr CC OW target. The results weren't acceptable at all. It also used Hornady virgin brass ,CCI 450 primers, and CFE 223.
Charge (gr) Velocity (fps) STD Dev # Samples
30..... 2344.0..... 30.5..... 3
30.3..... 2379.3..... 6.7..... 3
30.6..... 2396.7..... 27.1..... 3
30.9..... 2413.0..... 23.1..... 3
31.2..... 2455.7.... 10.2..... 3
31.5..... 2477.7..... 20.4..... 3
31.8..... 2499.7..... 16.5..... 3
32.1..... 2534.7..... 21.0..... 3
32.4..... 2526.0..... ..... 1
32.7..... 2588.0..... ..... 1

It was obvious (at least to me) I had hit the pressure limit at 32.4grs and the velocity data backed it up.

[Kikn]

I've had a very similar experience with my aac suppressor. I've found that with less pressure is more accurate. But standard Hornady loads I get crazy very different points compared to it being off. And it doesn't group as well. I ci use under powered load, the POI is pretty close.

It wasn't like that when I first started using it. I haven't cleaned it yet. I pretty much just stopped using it because it was useless.

[cory]

That's what I'm afraid off. This suppressor was to expensive to be a paper weight.

[am4966]

Hopefully you'll get the results your looking for with the can when it's attached to a 11.5" Lilja barrel. Since I'm hoping to use 100gr Barnes and the 129gr ABLR in my 12.5" for hunting, however things could change.

[Variable]

I took a trip to the range today for the fist time since late last fall. After about an hour of shooting, I was about ready to tear my rifle down and rebuild her making sure everything was torqued. It was the first time I've used my suppressor on a warmer day (72F). I suspect the suppressor heating up was affecting my accuracy. I'll need to do further testing on a better day to verify.

I discarded the suppressor and saw an immediate improvement. (SDN-6) In its defense I was incredibly pleased the initial accuracy of it at 100 yards, in the cold at Rebel's shop.




The 129gr Nosler ABLR
Charge (gr) Velocity (fps)
28.4..... 2208.0
28.7..... 2227.0
29..... 2257.0
29.3..... 2251.0
29.6..... 2260.0
29.9..... 2303.0
30.2..... 2309.0

I may have something at 29.3gr to 29.9gr. 30.2gr was max fill at 2.294 COL. 30.5gr was so compressed the press caved in the nose during loading.

Suppressor: Perhaps mirage issues?

129 ABLR: Thank you very much for sharing your data Cory! That's good stuff. What barrel length is that from?

[cory]

I recently added a TAB Gear cover to the suppressor. I don't think it's mirage, but I think the cover could be exasperating the heating issue.

It's a 16" Bartlein Barrel from Precision Firearms.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?8993-Thor-s-Hammer.....-A-long-time-coming&highlight=hammer

From what I've read the ABLR is more susceptible to its jump to lands (JTL), than the particular charge. I'm going to use the 29.3gr charge and play with the COL. Then I'll fine tune the charge.

The 127gr LRX is going to be useless to me at 2200fps. If the guys are interested, I'll donate what I have to the cause. I think the LRX in a 110gr to 115gr will be great.

[Savage Shooter]

I took a trip to the range today for the fist time since late last fall.

There is your problem right there! Why didn't you get out and shoot more? You live in AL, where, outside of mid-February this year (granted it was a whopper snowstorm), I don't think the area got much snow/cold weather - certainly no worse than Charlotte. I think I "forced" myself to shoot at least two and sometimes three weekends a month, with various firearms. I'd bet most of our horde brethren from waay up north got out more than you did. So, "muscle memory rust and rot" can be blamed, LOL.....

[Variable]

Whew! Okay, cool. I was worried that velocity was from a longer barrel.

I was hoping for 2300fps from a 12.5" tube, but looking at your data it doesn't look like it'll be happening. Oh well. If it'll shoot well, it'd still fly pretty darn well at 2200fps from a shorter tube. Hopefully I can get 2200 from a 12.5" tube.

I wish we could soak the CFE223 in some nitro and pick up another 100fps.

[Variable]

When you filled your cases, did you try a drop tube and/or vibrate them?

[cory]

There is your problem right there! Why didn't you get out and shoot more? You live in AL, where, outside of mid-February this year (granted it was a whopper snowstorm), I don't think the area got much snow/cold weather - certainly no worse than Charlotte. I think I "forced" myself to shoot at least two and sometimes three weekends a month, with various firearms. I'd bet most of our horde brethren from waay up north got out more than you did. So, "muscle memory rust and rot" can be blamed, LOL.....

Life happens. HAHA I started in the prone and thought that was part of the problem. After about 20 rounds I jumped up on the bench and under a sand bag to rule out my rust. It didn't get much better.

This was one of the worst winters for us in a LONG time. We got more than our fair share of ice and snow.

Whew! Okay, cool. I was worried that velocity was from a longer barrel.

I was hoping for 2300fps from a 12.5" tube, but looking at your data it doesn't look like it'll be happening. Oh well. If it'll shoot well, it'd still fly pretty darn well at 2200fps from a shorter tube. Hopefully I can get 2200 from a 12.5" tube.

I wish we could soak the CFE223 in some nitro and pick up another 100fps.

I think there's enough case capacity if we could load out to ~2.4". We'd need a new receiver set for that.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?9238-65-Receiver-Set-with-Polymer-mags-from-PF-%28HOPEFULLY%29

I'd really like to try some VV N540 with some of these longer bullets. If I could find any.

When you filled your cases, did you try a drop tube and/or vibrate them?

I guess I'm still a novice reloader. I've never done this and I'm not sure how to or what tools I'll need.

[biodsl]

I guess I'm still a novice reloader. I've never done this and I'm not sure how to or what tools I'll need.

Check this out at around the 12:50 mark. A nice re-purpose!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSChoYoGKq8

[lead chucker]

Mine is very accurate with my cyclone. But I did work the load up with the suppressor on it. Just play with it some more, work you load with the suppressor. Good luck and happy shooting. We all need to shoot more I know I do.

[cory]

Check this out at around the 12:50 mark. A nice re-purpose!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSChoYoGKq8

Good stuff! Thanks!!!

Mine is very accurate with my cyclone. But I did work the load up with the suppressor on it. Just play with it some more, work you load with the suppressor. Good luck and happy shooting. We all need to shoot more I know I do.

I'm going to play with it more before I render any verdict on the suppressor. A POI shift is fine, but if this thing is degrading accuracy with factory loads it'll become an expensive paper weight.

[bwaites]

Cory,

Anything you hang on the end of the barrel will possibly cause issues. Suppressors are notorious for that, but I know of rifles that shoot great with the muzzle brake, but not without, as well. Anything you add to the length changes barrel harmonics, and you can bet that when you hang a big ol' hunk of metal out there that is essentially a funny bell with baffles you will see all kinds of effects. What is amazing to me is that some companies are able to design their suppressors so that they don't have much POI effect, but that is the exception, not the rule.

One of the amazing things about the Hornady factory load is that it seems to shoot well out of just about every rifle, no matter the barrel length, but it was developed for non-suppressed rifles, and you may have run into the place where it doesn't run. There are a few other factory loads like that, Federal Match .308 for example, but they are the exception, not the rule.

Most guys who run suppressors develop a load specifically for that situation, and I'm betting you will have to do so as well. We just don't have enough suppressed experience with the Grendel across the board to make a lot of headway regarding possible loads.

[Savage Shooter]

I guess I'm still a novice reloader. I've never done this and I'm not sure how to or what tools I'll need.

I trickle charge/weigh all my rifle loads into a pan, then dump the pan into a funnel. When I start to get close to compressed loads, I switch funnels and I use the Forster Blue Ribbon Powder Funnel with Long Drop Tube. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/293...ProductFinding Believe it or not, the extra few inches the powder falls into the case is enough to give it enough extra velocity (gravity driven) so that the powder settles deeper and more uniformly into the case.