Build list for a 18" grendel

[mateba]

I have the intentions to do sport shooting, plink, hunt and try long distance. What do you think? Any pitfalls or red flags? Thanks for looking

18" mid length Satern med contour from Brownells
Griffin Arms taper mount flash comp
Supperlative Arms adjustable gas block
Mid length SS304 gas tube
Matrix arms foxtrot 15" keymod handguard, might go 13.5" to save an ounce

Anderson lower receiver $66 after FFL
Karri's Gun LPK with ECN FCG
Trinity Force alpha stock, buffer and end plate (came w/ MS carbine buffer spring)
KAK config buffer kit
Wolff reduced power buffer spring, Sprinco, Taccom or Tubb's reduced... not sure which
A2 pistol grip

Karri's Gun upper receiver
KG UPK
KG charging handle w/ extended catch
Aim Lightweight BCG
.136 Bolt supplied with barrel

Ozark Arms flip up sights
Aero Precision SPR mount
VORTEX Viper PST 2.5-10x32 FFP PST-43103 Gen1

assorted AA E-lander magazines.

This should be around 8-1/2# with a loaded magazine and optic. This AR would also be a low mass operating system. The point being to reduce the reciprocating mass and also gain a little velocity.

[VASCAR2]

The Brownell's 6.5 Grendel barrels are definitely rack grade, meaning you may get a good one, you may not, luck of the draw. I really like Browne'lls but I'm leery of their 6.5 Grendel barrels. I have two Friend's who bought barrels out of the first batch which are SAAMI spec chamber. One for sure has a short chamber but shoots really good, found out the hard way with broken extractor and was also over gassed. Friend added a adjustable gas block and now is satisfied but has to use reloads. Factory ammo was to long but he normally shoots reloads.

The second barrel from the first batch hasn't been shot very much, probabley less than 100 rounds. Another Friend bought an 18" Brownell's 6.5 Grendel last year. This barrel has the Grendel II chamber and has proven finicky on what loads will produce decent accuracy. At least this barrel was not over gassed. This barrel has shown the best accuracy with Sierra 120 grain MK BTHP.

The Grenel II barrel my Friend has is the least accurate of any rifle I've been around that shoots 6.5 Grendel ammunition. The most important component in an AR-15 is the barrel. Just wanted you to hear my experience with these barrels. For a run and gun competition rifle the Brownell's might have sufficient accuracy but you'll get better barrel life out of a Nitride/Melonite/QPQ 4150 CMV barrel.

The one Friend who bought the Brownell's barrel with the short chamber has since bought at least four Alexander Arms Stainless Steel fluted 16" 6.5 Grendel barrels. AA just recently started selling an 18" fluted SS 6.5 Grendel for $195. These have proven to be very accurate well finished barrels. If I were going to buy a 18" SS 6.5 Grendel barrel I'd buy the AA $195 barrel. The only disadvantage to the AA barrel is the 9/16X24 thread pitch used because the barrels are to thin to use 5/8X24 pitch (same thread as 308/7.62X51 barrels).

[mateba]

Well that sounds awful. I want an accurate barrel for reloads and factory match but I also want to be able to shoot steel case ammo. I am under the impression that barrel makers will not warranty a barrel that's been using steel case ammo unless they are big enough, like Brownell's. Brownell's warranty is ridiculous, maybe your freind should pursue a refund. I would expect my barrel to be able use factory ammo.

[VASCAR2]

Alexander Arms collaborated with Branual in the developement of the Steel Cased 6.5 Grendel ammunition imported by Wolf Precision. Many users have reported no functioning issues with AA 16" SS 6.5 Grendel barrels. One of the rasons AA designed the compound throat chamber design was to be able to shoot a wide variety of projectiles and steel cased ammunition.

My Friend who got the SAAMI 6.5 Grendel barrel from Brownell's knew he could easily return his barrel but chose to keep his barrel because it was accurate. With use the throat might erode enough to shoot factory ammo. My Friend shoots mostly reloads so the short chamber was not a deal breaker for him.

Brownell's has outstanding customer service and warranty and if I were going to buy a Satern/Liberty barrel it would be from Brownell's.

I'm not aware of AA ever stating they will not warranty a rifle/barrel which has been shot with steel cased ammo. There are many satisfied users of Satern/Liberty Grendel II chambered barrels but I will not buy one. Personal choice and experience with SAAMI chambered 6.5 Grendel barrels are my preference. I own a J&T Distributing/Double Star 16" 6.5 Grendel, 20" Shilen 6.5 Grendel and a group buy Faxon QPQ 16" midlength 6.5 Grendel, all have been GTG.

[Klem]

Does Satern sell barrels via Brownells?

Your listed muzzle device is a flash hider and weighs 3.7oz. You mention wanting to save an ounce in your handguard so why not just screw on a thread protector and save yourself $100?

[Drillboss]

Does Satern sell barrels via Brownells?

Your listed muzzle device is a flash hider and weighs 3.7oz. You mention wanting to save an ounce in your handguard so why not just screw on a thread protector and save yourself $100?

From Brownell's website:

Brownells AR-15/M16 barrels, made for Brownells by Satern Barrels, feature 5R button rifling and are machined from 416R gun barrel steel for a superior shooting barrel. These 6.5 Grendel barrels feature a stainless steel finish. Barrels have 1-8 twist for excellent performance with a wide range of bullets. Available in 18” & 24” lengths. The 18” barrel features a mid-length gas system, while the 24” has a rifle length system. Muzzle is threaded 5/8"-24 and the gas shoulder accepts 0.750" gas block. Chamber is 6.5 Grendel II. Opposite side of gas port features a dimple for a gas block set screw. A 6.5 Grendel bolt is included with each barrel. Bolt is machined from 9310 steel with a bolt face depth of .136". Barrel extension is M4 feed ramp style.

[A5BLASTER]

I have owned one of those barrel's made by Saturn and sold throw brownell's it was one my first grendel I bought from a member on this fourm.

My take on them at that time and still now is unless you load your own ammo you won't be doing the best the caliber has to offer.

At the time I was only shooting factory ammo and it took my best efforts to get three under a inch at 100 yards and it was very hard to get five at a inch, I have a sammi chambered barrel made by JP now and it will do five under a inch much easyer.

If I had to do it again I would never had bought the rifle knowing it had a Saturn/Brownell's barrel I just started getting into learning how to load my own ammo and I still wouldn't own anouther one of those barrel's.

This is just my personal experience and thoughts on those barrel's.

[mateba]

Alexander Arms collaborated with Branual in the developement of the Steel Cased 6.5 Grendel ammunition imported by Wolf Precision. Many users have reported no functioning issues with AA 16" SS 6.5 Grendel barrels. One of the rasons AA designed the compound throat chamber design was to be able to shoot a wide variety of projectiles and steel cased ammunition.

My Friend who got the SAAMI 6.5 Grendel barrel from Brownell's knew he could easily return his barrel but chose to keep his barrel because it was accurate. With use the throat might erode enough to shoot factory ammo. My Friend shoots mostly reloads so the short chamber was not a deal breaker for him.

Brownell's has outstanding customer service and warranty and if I were going to buy a Saturn/Liberty barrel it would be from Brownell's.

I'm not aware of AA ever stating they will not warranty a rifle/barrel which has been shot with steel cased ammo. There are many satisfied users of Saturn/Liberty Grendel II chambered barrels but I will not buy one. Personal choice and experience with SAAMI chambered 6.5 Grendel barrels are my preference. I own a J&T Distributing/Double Star 16" 6.5 Grendel, 20" Shilen 6.5 Grendel and a group buy Faxon QPQ 16" midlength 6.5 Grendel, all have been GTG.

My friend suggested heavier barrel profiles to me and said that they are more rigid and deal with heat better. He is of the line of thinking that a more rigid barrel is better for consistency between shots and this would be even more prevalent at longer ranges. I was originally looking at a HBAR profile. One at Joebob's a 18" QPQ fluted HBAR by Faxon and a Criterion HBAR by PF. Since I decided to trust in Brownell's it was a out of my hands and have since considered the medium profile's weight in the compromise. I'm at a lack of experience here. I'm not sure of the pros and cons to each profile or my opinion of them. I've have not looked at AA seriously for that reason. From what I hear AA goes the mile for their customers and essentially the proliferation of their cartridge. I do like there 18" barrel but I'm not sure if the profile is for me. I'm not sure, Brownell's is a pretty soft landing if I screw up. Hopefully I learn something.

I am thinking of hand lapping the Brownell's barrel and my upper receiver. Maybe I should try shooting it first, and then going from there. If I can get 1 MOA out of it with factory match, I think its reasonable to say that Brownell's did there part. That seams to be a common industry standard. Although, they do not require an excuse for a refund in my understanding of their warranty.

Does Satern sell barrels via Brownells?
Your listed muzzle device is a flash hider and weighs 3.7oz. You mention wanting to save an ounce in your handguard so why not just screw on a thread protector and save yourself $100?

I like the way you think. Awesome point. Which I'm not sure I can easily answer. I am not treating the weight difference between a 15" and 13.5" handguard and the weight difference between a thread protector/target crown (no threads) and a 3.7oz muzzle device the same. I am taking in account that each part of the rifles anatomy serves a different purpose. I'm not sure how significant of a gain I will receive by having a 15" rail over a 13.5" in function. I know it weighs more and in this case it does not cost any more but what does that weight mean in function? Is 1-1/2" of more rail worth an ounce? While with the muzzle device I'm paying a premium for flash suppression, compensation and its threads for griffin's suppressors. I do want threads, I think they are worth more than not having. A simple lightweight 7.62 phantom FS would be a good alternative. And I think this muzzle device is unique enough in function to give it a wirl. I acknowledge it is not my most budget conscious parts choice. And maybe this is something I try later on and option for the cheaper FH now.

Yes. Brownell's sells Satern barrels. I think they are liberty barrels but I am not sure. They also sell JP barrels. http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...85-112684.aspx

Thank you!

I have owned one of those barrel's made by Saturn and sold throw brownell's it was one my first grendel I bought from a member on this fourm.

My take on them at that time and still now is unless you load your own ammo you won't be doing the best the caliber has to offer.

At the time I was only shooting factory ammo and it took my best efforts to get three under a inch at 100 yards and it was very hard to get five at a inch, I have a sammi chambered barrel made by JP now and it will do five under a inch much easyer.

If I had to do it again I would never had bought the rifle knowing it had a Saturn/Brownell's barrel I just started getting into learning how to load my own ammo and I still wouldn't own anouther one of those barrel's.

This is just my personal experience and thoughts on those barrel's.

That sounds like an indictment. I'll considered myself warned if I decide to continue with the Brownell's barrel. Thank you

[85_Ranger4x4]

In my quest for a barrel I didn't think the Liberty barrels were that hot of a deal. Heavy barrels are good for accuracy and dealing with heat as long as you don't have to carry them far and always have a rest to shoot off of.

I went with a 13" handguard, after comparing with my existing 16" rife I think it will have nice proportions with a 18" barrel. Weight was also a concern.

[mateba]

In my quest for a barrel I didn't think the Liberty barrels were that hot of a deal. Heavy barrels are good for accuracy and dealing with heat as long as you don't have to carry them far and always have a rest to shoot off of.

I went with a 13" handguard, after comparing with my existing 16" rife I think it will have nice proportions with a 18" barrel. Weight was also a concern.

I agree and I'm not surprised by barrel choice raised some concern. It is not my first choice. I've seen some great 10 round groups and read some stories in which I would have asked for a refund.

[Klem]

OK thanks for clearing things up.

Frankly, and no offense, I have never used any of those parts and never heard of some of them. From the barrel however it does sound like a budget build and if that's what you want then all good.

I am comfortable with mainstream reputable companies. The three main elements of a gun that are important to me are; the barrel, the trigger, and scope;

1. Lilja
2. Geissele
3. March

The barrel at least should get a disproportionate amount of the budget. This is the lowest common denominator of a guns accuracy. It doesn't matter how good you are, or your ammo, or scope, or bags/rest, or wind conditions. All those things won't make an average barrel shoot better than its potential.

I realise that my three preferences are a bit pricey, especially the scope but I like guns. I don't have a lot of guns but the ones I have get all the love. I wish I had them 30 years ago...Oh well.

[StoneHendge]

I am about to give up on my 18" AR Stoner Grendel barrel which is exactly like the Satern Liberty, so I'd bet a lot of money it is a Satern. It gets 5/8" at 100 yds with factory Amax but I can't find a handload that does better and I've been wasting too much time and $ trying to find it. I have one load that might show some promise, but if it doesn't work, Lilja is getting a call (I have a monolithic upper so I'm restricted to a mid length gas system).

I can't speak about their Grendel barrels, but Odin barrels are at your price point. I have their 18" 22 Nosier barrel and it shoots 77 grain factory ammo between 1/2" and 3/4". I've gotten several 1/4" 3 shot groups with a 75 grain Berger VLD. Customer service is outstanding and they will let you upgrade to an clamp on adjustable gas block from the included "tunable" gas block. Odin blocks are by far the easiest to install since they seat against the shoulder and have alignment notches on both the barrel and the block.

[mateba]

Klem,
Yes, this build has a budget. And no, I'm not offended. Thank you for your time. I will probably buy a nicer trigger and a few other parts later on. I am willing to double my allotment for glass as more than a few of y'all noted $300 is just not enough. And I agree. I would really like to be able to buy products from the brands you listed one day. A gieselle trigger might be doable sooner than later, I know their stuff is awesome. And I'd like a nice safe trigger for hunting.

My budget started at $875 from a rifle and ammo sale. Maybe I should have put an amount on everything and said that was a consideration. I'll update my original post. The parts list is approaching $830 w/o scope and mount. From the onset, I knew the rifle would cost close to that in parts alone. The mount and scope I chose will be another $625. I'll need to figure something out for that. The low mass stuff didn't cost too much more up front. I certainly could have saved $70 by buy cheap normal DI parts.

[mateba]

I am about to give up on my 18" AR Stoner Grendel barrel which is exactly like the Satern Liberty, so I'd bet a lot of money it is a Satern. It gets 5/8" at 100 yds with factory Amax but I can't find a handload that does better and I've been wasting too much time and $ trying to find it. I have one load that might show some promise, but if it doesn't work, Lilja is getting a call (I have a monolithic upper so I'm restricted to a mid length gas system).

I can't speak about their Grendel barrels, but Odin barrels are at your price point. I have their 18" 22 Nosier barrel and it shoots 77 grain factory ammo between 1/2" and 3/4". I've gotten several 1/4" 3 shot groups with a 75 grain Berger VLD. Customer service is outstanding and they will let you upgrade to an clamp on adjustable gas block from the included "tunable" gas block. Odin blocks are by far the easiest to install since they seat against the shoulder and have alignment notches on both the barrel and the block.

Those AR-Stoner barrels are probably comparable if they are not made by Liberty/Satern. The ones on midway now are 264LBC and I didn't see anything about their headspacing. 5/8" groups with factory ammo doesn't sound so bad though. Does it shoot under 1MOA at further ranges? It is a bummer that you are having trouble developing a handload. I am looking forward to that and would find it really discouraging if all my barrel would shoot was the first thing I put through it.

There are quite a few barrel options at my price range. I would consider this to be the "$300-400 w/ bolt" range. Odin, Criterion by PF, BHW, Wilson Arms through JSE, Satern by Liberty, Faxon, AR performance, DEZ, McGowen, X-caliber and I'm sure there is more. Some of these guys have some negative reviews online and warnings and some don't. I have yet to read a negative remark about anything PF makes (owned by Mark who patrons these forums ) or BHW. But that's a huge accomplishment and not a standard. The Brownell's choice is totally not sexy. In comparison, PF's Criterion barrel might be the most accurate of the bunch and BHW boasts a FPS bump. BHW said on the phone that their rifling promotes an increase of velocity by 10% or roughly 2" of more barrel length. And, that was a really cool feature to me since I want a shorter barrel. Some adjustable gas blocks have been correlated with a velocity increase and I think it would be interesting to see the two together in attempts to increase velocity. But, 264LBC has also questionable reputation with steel case ammo and that is not something I can accept right now. The difference in cost of ammo between $.87 hornady and $.23 wolf is over $300 at 500 rounds.

[85_Ranger4x4]

One big problem I have with BHW is the .125 bolt face depth.

I wish Faxon would get their stuff to market sometime soon too.