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Lots of talk on all the forums regarding the top shelf barrels in 6.5 Grendel (Satern, Shilen, etc.) Does anyone out there have any rounds through AA's button rifled barrels? Can't imagine AA putting out junk but am curious as to how these barrels shoot.
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I have an AA Shilen barrel, and it shoots very well indeed. I think the Shilen barrels are button rifled. I think if they were single point cut, they would be advertising them as such. If I feed the barrel good ammo, it shoots .65-.8 inches at 100 yards. -
ARM:Originally posted by ARMANIAC View Post
AA doesn't put out junk but a Shilen / Kreiger / Satern will be more consistent and more capable at longer distances than a standard AA barrel. Depends on what you want out of the rifle. General blasting and you don't need to drop the money on a top end barrel. Want to be competitive in a sport then yes, spend the extra hundred dollars on a premium barrel.
LR1955Comment
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GR:Originally posted by grendelized View Post
It is a Shilen, not a mass produced barrel intended for mass sales.
Small groups are common at 100 yards with any decent barrel. Likely a standard no-name AA barrel will be very close at 100 yards. Push both to 300 and my bets are that a person will see a real difference. May not be important based on their needs but I bet they will still recognize the difference between a premium and rack grade barrel.
LR1955Comment
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That sums it up well. I find that most decently made barrels will run nicely out to 300 but the premium barrels are beginning to show an edge. Stretch to 600 and the difference becomes clear. That is not to say that every rack grade does this and I have seen some beautiful groups from standard production grade barrels but it is a game of percentages. I like fitting the Shilens because I never have to worry about an average performance at longer ranges.
Move to the cut rifled tubes and at ranges less than 300 the performance is moot with a good button barrel. The difference only becomes evident as the ranges extend and then it is harder to quantify. The thing I have found is that the cut barrels are a lot less fussy about matching twist rate to projectile and they generally release a more stable bullet at the muzzle which ultimately shows up in better than expected windage adjustments.
As a final observation we have been experimenting with different alloys and heat treatments on the barrels. There is a correlation between the hoop stiffness and the accuracy that is beginning to show up but it is difficult to put a figure on.
Bill AlexanderComment
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Bill:Originally posted by Bill Alexander View Post
If you have enough data to meet an assumption of normality, you ought to be able to determine if a correlation exists and if it is significant.
LR1955Comment
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Too far from that point at the moment, and there is an additional problem with respect to barrel profile. Thick barrels immitate the same effect but the moment of inertia for these make them easier to shoot even from a cradle, so I cannot compare between different barrel types from the same manufacturer.
I am using a light fluted profile as a common basis but only have a sample of 8 barrels. I did not initially intend to examine this feature it sort of appeared during production testing, which indicates that the effect is noticable. I need to design a test but the consideration is that I am a production works not an R&D facility.
Bill AlexanderComment
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I always wondered if mounting an AR barrel at the center of percussion distance for whatever barrel profile is cut would improve barrel stability during the internal ballistics duration of the firing event. We'd have to start designing scope mounts for our hand guard free-float tubes, but the floating nature of the AR bolt would seem to support this design. The whole rear section of the barrel would be in tension and pulled straight during the most violent part of the bullet launch.
Cannon used to be mounted in this fashion. More like just past the balance point for the casting, but enough to put consistent weight on the elevation mechanism.
Hmmm, I need to go find a lathe.....Comment
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So, what kind of accuracy can I expect from the Entry rifle I am getting, with standard AA barrel?Comment
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Most everyone gets their factory Grendels to shoot around 2MOA or better at 100, even with the Entry level models. There is some variation, but most people find that there is at least one load that will shoot sub MOA groups, even with the basic barrel models.
Some have shot even sub 1/2 MOA groups, but that would be the exception rather than the normal.Comment
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Does anyone have any experience with JP's supermatch Barrel?Comment
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I have an Entry, everything I load goes into one ragged hole to 200yds. Plenty good enough for my hunting needs. No one I know can match my groups with their custom guns. It's awesome.Comment
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Good to know that the standard barrel is plenty accurate.
I have questions, off-topic: What would be a good upper to get in addition to the Entry? I am thinking about one in a shorter barrel length. Gas piston vs DI, and why do the shorter barrels have a faster twist-rate?
ThanksComment
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DB:Originally posted by diablo blanco View Post
Yes, one a 6.5G and the other a .223. Supermatch is a relative term.
Both shoot around one minute with some decently tuned loads and you can readily expect under 1 1/2 minutes day in and day out with decent loads. More than adequate for IPSC and Three Gun stuff. I wouldn't shoot them over the course but can't anyway because both have compensators on them.
So, his barrels are good but probably not the Satern or Krieger quality. Way better than a Shaw or the coveted 'Stoner' who no company admits making.
Also, his overall quality is top end so I buy from him with confidence that what I get will perform to the standards that John Paul states in writing. If you are considering one of his uppers or rifles, do understand JP is very specific in terms of their intended use.
LR55Comment
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