JP vs Larue

[StoneHendge]

I've never purchased a LaRue product. But given the restrictions on exporting firearms and parts and the associated red tape, I don't blame someone for not exporting if they don't want to or need to. It may not be worth the risk to your business and livelihood. Sounds like he had some product showing up on the gray market. Sure, you can get away with selling uranium to the Russians or missile technology to North Korea if you give to the right Foundation. But if your a regular Joe, one mistake or even perceived mistake made now could get the gun grabbers looking for blood if they ever get back in power. If you can't get the bans your looking for because of that pesky old Constitution, you can always try to go after the producers and distributors for not dotting their i's or crossing their t's.

[Randy99CL]

Klem said "cryogenically cooled" You can do that at too. I did it to Frosty. She stressed relieved in the AP upper after spending the night in the freezer. Another reason to build your own I would have had to pay for shipping and somebody else to freeze the same barrel I did at home for free. Saved a bunch of money on that one.

Are you serious? Do you think your kitchen freezer did the same job as those they use to "cryo" treat barrels?
Who is Frosty?

[Klem]

I think you will find Popeye is having a bit of fun at the expense of a questionable character who breezed onto the forum a few months ago touting the miracle benefits of cryogenic cooling. The emoticon at the end gives it away nicely. 'Frosty' is the name of his gun and if I remember rightly he had to stick the barrel in the fridge to get it into the upper. I'll admit to bringing the cryogenic bit up, but to be fair JP does state it on their website.

KS,

Thanks for the kind words...Enjoy membership of the LaRue community while it lasts because if you hang around here long enough you will start to wonder, and question yourself, and think about things some more, like maybe, maybe, there are other options. Stare into the Dillo Dust container for reassurance but it's just cheap seasoning. Maybe that $10 Nalgene bottle with the LaRue logo on it (full of Kool-Aid) is just you paying after-tax $$$ to advertise his business, when it really should be them paying you! Meanwhile, other shooters look away knowingly swigging plain water from their cheaper generic Nalgene's. After a while you realise, why did I join this cult? It's time to make my own decisions...It's time to build a better gun!

[Sticks]

I think you will find Popeye is having a bit of fun at the expense of ...Three... questionable characters who breezed onto the forum a few months ago touting the miracle benefits of cryogenic cooling. The emoticon at the end gives it away nicely. 'Frosty' is the name of his gun and if I remember rightly he had to stick the barrel in the fridge to get it into the upper. I'll admit to bringing the cryogenic bit up, but to be fair JP does state it on their website.

KS,

Thanks for the kind words...Enjoy membership of the LaRue community while it lasts because if you hang around here long enough you will start to wonder, and question yourself, and think about things some more, like maybe, maybe, there are other options. Stare into the Dillo Dust container for reassurance but it's just cheap seasoning. Maybe that $10 Nalgene bottle with the LaRue logo on it (full of Kool-Aid) is just you paying after-tax $$$ to advertise his business, when it really should be them paying you! Meanwhile, other shooters look away knowingly swigging plain water from their cheaper generic Nalgene's. After a while you realise, why did I join this cult? It's time to make my own decisions...It's time to build a better gun!

Fixed the first line for you.


Another wonder is why PF stays at the head of the game as well given their customer service, epic delays and questionable QC.

JP Builds race guns and focuses around competition. Larue is more along the lines of longevity and rough handling. I own neither.

[Jakal]

I have a PF Bartlien barrel that cost 2x my Lilja and it dosen't shoot any better. It is actually more picky and finicky. I can't use some normal powders like CFE or bullets like the SST.
AR-COMP and Scenar are what I can shoot with it. It took over 6 months to get the barrel. I bought it because of the reviews on this board. To say the least, I am not impressed but it shoots. So no recourse there. I won't buy any more PF gear.

I'll stick with Lilja barrels and build my own guns.

[Popeye212]

Are you serious? Do you think your kitchen freezer did the same job as those they use to "cryo" treat barrels?
Who is Frosty?

Of course not, I should have specified it was an upright freezer in the garage. Frosty is what I nicknamed that build because when I took the barrel out of the freezer it immediately frosted up. Wore gloves to keep it from sticking to my hands IT WAS THAT COLD

[NugginFutz]

Larue Tactical UU Twelve Step Program

My Name is NugginFutz and I assembled one of the Larue UU 6.5 Grendels.

>"Hi, Nuggin"<

Seriously, though, I really did and have I to say that as my first true 6.5 Grendel (vs. 264 LBC), I am not the least bit disappointed. "Some assembly required. Just add Lower". Not an exaggeration. You even get one of his triggers as part of the LPK provided in the UU kit.

While I'm not what I consider a fan boy of any particular manufacturer or vendor (this attitude extends into literally all facets of my life), this company has earned its way into my "Circle of Trust", alongside a handful of other products.

KSWT mentions the accuracy he has been enjoying. Well, two can play that game. In comparison to one of my table riders, a heavy framed BHW 264 LBC, the Larue is holding its own quite well.

The BHW is a 22" Bull Barreled, slab sided rifle built specifically for the LR game.

The newcomer LT UU is an 18" barreled, middle weight with less glass (4-16x50, vs 6-24x50).

Back in January of this year, I had them both out at 300 yards while waiting for the 1000 yard steel range to become available. Here are a couple of 5 shot groups.

Top is the BHW, bottom is the Larue (IIRC, it had just about 75 rounds through it at the time.)


BHW 264 LBC @ 300 yards


Larue Tactical 6.5 Grendel @ 300 yards.

I think it is also noteworthy is the fact that both of these groups were shot using the Hornady 123 Grain HPBT, known as American Gunner.

So, while I can't directly speak to the JP offerings, I can say the Larue stacks up quite favorably to one of the better shooting gas guns I have in my possession.

ETA: In the interests of full disclosure, I neither used or snorted the 'Dillo Dust which accompanied the Ultimate Upper. I did, however, put one of the enclosed stickers on my truck's rear window.

IMG_3475.jpg

[montana]

I have competed against JP rifles and have nothing but the highest opinion of them. They are top of the line as competition rifles from my experience and find pride in my own builds when I beat other competitors using them. I have had nothing but excellent experience with Larue products and can find no fault with them. Disclosure: I do inhale, "not snort" Dillo Dust

[LRRPF52]

Regarding the ITAR issue. If you're a supplier to the US DoD and they find out you've been knowingly shipping defense articles abroad, even if you learned it was through a dealer or 3rd party you never approved to do that, you can get fined or have contracts pulled.

Maybe other companies don't care about that if they don't have contracts, but it isn't a luxury DoD suppliers can afford. Makes sense that Mark would actively track down the 3rd party and shut it down. He's also huge on supporting the military in every way he can possibly, as his dad was US Navy. Foreign military partners can acquire articles through the appropriate channels, but that doesn't help the private citizen who is looking for their own components in a restrictive environment.

To the rifles. The biggest things you will notice up front are the barrel weights. The 18" JP uses a light profile under the handguard, whereas the current LaRue 18" Grendel has more of a medium-heavy contour.

Next biggest thing is gas system length.

JP 18" is RLGS
LaRue is MLGS

Next striking difference is handguard diameter and attachment method.

JP is 2" on their main ventilated free float tubes
LaRue is very slim with dedicated 12 o'clock rail and choice of MLOK or KeyMod, with Stealth 2.0 attachment to the upper.

Both companies use 7075 T6 aluminum billet receivers.

Next major difference is the muzzle brake.

The JP Cooley-type brake is very effective, with a lot of side blast signature that is noticeable to the shooter.

The LaRue Tranquillo brake is very effective, but surprisingly pleasant to shoot.

Gas system:
JP uses adjustable gas
LaRue has a sealed gas ferrule for the tube in the block

Bolt Carrier Group:
JP uses Lo Mass BCG on the high end guns, standard weight available. I've seen them nitrided or something that looks like hard chrome.
LaRue uses an M16 standard weight carrier, nitrided.

Fire control group:

JP single stage set for 3.0-5.0lbs
LaRue MBT-2S 2-stage with full power hammer spring

Recoil System:
JP in their high end guns uses the Silent Capture Spring
LaRue uses a standard carbine buffer and quality recoil spring

Upper receivers:

The JP SCR uses a side charger upper with no ejection port cover, or you can go with a standard JP-15 upper.
LaRue Stealth 2.0 is reinforced, includes ejection port door and Forward Assist

Furniture:
JP has some pistol grip and stock options.
LaRue has the APEG Grip and RAT stock, with removable internal cleaning rod section sleeves.
LaRue also precision-machines all his Receiver Extension Tubes to mate optimally with the RAT or Mil Spec CAR stocks.

Very tough call. You'll get a lot of great features and systemic balance regardless of what you go with.

[Gman6.5]

My Name is NugginFutz and I assembled one of the Larue UU 6.5 Grendels.

>"Hi, Nuggin"<

Seriously, though, I really did and have I to say that as my first true 6.5 Grendel (vs. 264 LBC), I am not the least bit disappointed. "Some assembly required. Just add Lower". Not an exaggeration. You even get one of his triggers as part of the LPK provided in the UU kit.

While I'm not what I consider a fan boy of any particular manufacturer or vendor (this attitude extends into literally all facets of my life), this company has earned its way into my "Circle of Trust", alongside a handful of other products.

KSWT mentions the accuracy he has been enjoying. Well, two can play that game. In comparison to one of my table riders, a heavy framed BHW 264 LBC, the Larue is holding its own quite well.

The BHW is a 22" Bull Barreled, slab sided rifle built specifically for the LR game.

The newcomer LT UU is an 18" barreled, middle weight with less glass (4-16x50, vs 6-24x50).

Back in January of this year, I had them both out at 300 yards while waiting for the 1000 yard steel range to become available. Here are a couple of 5 shot groups.

Top is the BHW, bottom is the Larue (IIRC, it had just about 75 rounds through it at the time.)


BHW 264 LBC @ 300 yards


Larue Tactical 6.5 Grendel @ 300 yards.

I think it is also noteworthy is the fact that both of these groups were shot using the Hornady 123 Grain HPBT, known as American Gunner.

So, while I can't directly speak to the JP offerings, I can say the Larue stacks up quite favorably to one of the better shooting gas guns I have in my possession.

ETA: In the interests of full disclosure, I neither used or snorted the 'Dillo Dust which accompanied the Ultimate Upper. I did, however, put one of the enclosed stickers on my truck's rear window.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]12177[/ATTACH]

Nuggin

How long was the wait time for you upper?

I wasn't at all happy with a Faxon 20" barrel I had for my first Grendel build, and I am very close to getting the Larue 6.5 upper setup and putting it together myself.

I am in no hurry but just curious as to the wait time. My past experience has been 2 to 3 weeks them.

[revaew]

Gman, My upper kit shipped like a day or two after I placed the order. It was at my door about a week after I ordered it. I did not have them assemble it.

[Gman6.5]

Gman, My upper kit shipped like a day or two after I placed the order. It was at my door about a week after I ordered it. I did not have them assemble it.

Excellent! Thanks!

Been out of the Grendel game since around last October after the huge disappointment with that Faxon barrel, And some crappy 5 and 10 round magazines. I have been shooting my M1A , but that thing is a real PITA to keep accurate. She's a high maintenance bitch, and I'm growing tired of it, and I really have been itching to get back to shooting a Grendel cartridge.

[Klem]

Regarding the ITAR issue. If you're a supplier to the US DoD and they find out you've been knowingly shipping defense articles abroad, even if you learned it was through a dealer or 3rd party you never approved to do that, you can get fined or have contracts pulled.

Maybe other companies don't care about that if they don't have contracts, but it isn't a luxury DoD suppliers can afford. Makes sense that Mark would actively track down the 3rd party and shut it down. He's also huge on supporting the military in every way he can possibly, as his dad was US Navy. Foreign military partners can acquire articles through the appropriate channels, but that doesn't help the private citizen who is looking for their own components in a restrictive environment.

.

It's OK 52, I'm well aware of import/export requirements, costs, effort, patience and politics. Mind you, if I lived over there I'd be broke! My advice, make sure you never take for granted the access you have. As for Mark, he did what he thought he had to do but that doesn't change the fact that between us, I am entitled to believe he acted dishonourably. Scope mounts are dime a dozen in every country so we both come out on top and neither of us lose sleep over it.