Not Grendel Related, but still want input on a new pistol.

[Rambozo]

Well here it is. I'm thinking either a Stoeger Cougar in 9mm, or a Bersa Thunder 9 Pro.

What say you?

[hm2 clark]

Had a Bersa Thunder for a while. It jamed a lot so I got rid of it. Went to a CZ.

[Rambozo]

well, I have the Bersa .380, which i've been happy with. That explains my interest in the 9mm. But I read really good things about the Stoeger. My father recently picked one up, and it looks like a good pistol. I will be browsing a gun show tomorrow. I'm hoping I can find them there. I really want to check them out.

[LRRPF52]

I've owned the Bersa .380 and really liked it as well. What is the intended purpose of this pistol?

[Rambozo]

Just to shoot. Might try idpa or something with it later. I dont currently own a 9mm, and i want one.

[LRRPF52]

For a 9mm compact with double mag column, I can't recommend the S&W M&P 9 Compact enough. For a smaller gun for summer carry in low-threat environments, the Kahr's are nice, as are some of the other pocket pistols that have come out over the past few years. It's an endless search for a good low-profile gun for me. I'm trying to hold myself to Made in USA as much as possible, considering the economy and unemployment. I figure if I spend every dollar I have available on Made in USA products, I'm only helping that much more.

[Rambozo]

Well, they didn't have either at the gun show. They didn't even have any good reloading components. It was pretty weak, but I did pick up a new DPMS lower though.

I guess I will have to stick with the .45 for a while before I decide what kind of 9mm I want. I have plenty of time.

[MrDraco]

Well, they didn't have either at the gun show. They didn't even have any good reloading components.

I'm not surprised there on both of those aspects. All you'll mostly find at gun shows are guns that sell which means brands that have become a household name or are very common such as Glock, XD, Kahr, Keltec, Ruger, etc.

Same with the reloading stuff. When a dealer only has a limited space why take up valuable room with low or no profit items that most likely wont sell when you can use that space for high profit items that will sell? Plus most reloading stuff is limited by the Fire Marshall due to it being a public meeting place. The gun shows we go to, the dealers are only allowed 5 lbs of powder and primers COMBINED in the whole building, not 5 lbs per dealer.

For carry, I have a Ruger LC9 and I love it. It's only a 7+1 capacity but realistically this is plenty in almost all real life situations a civilian will be involved in. It's smaller then both of the guns you mentioned above and is almost half their weight.

[VASCAR2]

When you brought up the Stoeger Cougar the first thing that came to mind was a Beretta Cougar model 8080 IIRC. I looked at the Stoeger web site and also looked on gun broker and the Beretta Cougar and and Stoeger Cougar are Clones. Stoeger is an importer who used to import Llama pistols from Spain and I bet Stoeger worked out a deal to bring the Cougar into the USA since it was a weak seller for Beretta. You can probably find a used Beretta Cougar for a fair price. A local PD used to issue the Beretta Cougar and it was the only dept that I ever knew that issued that pistol. They were reliable pistols put just a tad large especially for concealed carry.

[Rambozo]

When you brought up the Stoeger Cougar the first thing that came to mind was a Beretta Cougar model 8080 IIRC. I looked at the Stoeger web site and also looked on gun broker and the Beretta Cougar and and Stoeger Cougar are Clones. Stoeger is an importer who used to import Llama pistols from Spain and I bet Stoeger worked out a deal to bring the Cougar into the USA since it was a weak seller for Beretta. You can probably find a used Beretta Cougar for a fair price. A local PD used to issue the Beretta Cougar and it was the only dept that I ever knew that issued that pistol. They were reliable pistols put just a tad large especially for concealed carry.

Actually, I believe Beretta and Stoeger are owned by the same company. As I understand it, Beretta discontinued the Cougar under the Baretta name in favor of the PX4 Storm, and instead just moved production of the Cougar to Stoeger where it is manufactured in Turkey. Otherwise, I believe it's the same gun as the older Baretta. It takes the same magazines.

I think the Bersas are Sig clones.

[Whelenon]

Anyone seen or shot the new Walther PPQ, on paper is looks good. We finally got CC here in WI, so I'm looking for a good 9mm. The 45 is just a bit much for daily carry.

[Rambozo]

Anyone seen or shot the new Walther PPQ, on paper is looks good. We finally got CC here in WI, so I'm looking for a good 9mm. The 45 is just a bit much for daily carry.

No, but my experience with the Walther P22 doesn't leave a good impression.

On another note, I shot my father's Stoeger today. It did jam once, but that was on the very first magazine. I don't know that I would hold that against it just yet. It's a neat pistol, but seems bulky. The grip angle is a bit straighter than that of my Glock 21, which I find odd when moving directly from the Glock. My impression though, is that a glock 17 might be more of what I'm looking for, because I'm simply more used to the glock, and the slide is much lower profile than that of the Stoeger.

I found myself shooting low with the Stoeger. That, I think, might be due to the grip angle, or the fact that my glock is .45, and I might be unwittingly compensating for recoil. I admit, I'm not the best with a pistol. I really need to practice. I remember being better at it, but that's when I used to shoot it all the time. Hell, this is the first time in a couple of years that I shot a pistol. I know, I should be ashamed. Still, I did shoot a lot better with the old glock 21. I love that pistol.

[LRRPF52]

The Glock 21 requires monster hands to manage. I'm 6ft with fairly large hands, and the G21 is a bit much for me...needs a grip reduction job. G17's are a great training and utilitarian pistol, requiring no real maintenance, and still deliver the reliability record to beat still, which is funny considering the general attitude to them in 1986.

For a carry gun, the G19 is a great choice. I personally like the S&W M&P series pistols, and they have been as reliable for me so far as Glocks have been. I've experienced zero malfs with the M&P's in full-size 9mm and .40, as well as compact 9mm. I shoot a minimum of 300rds per session with pistol work, since it is probably the most perishable skill set. I'm trying to get away from .40 S&W, and use mostly 9mm. I'm getting ready to run an advanced concealed carry course this weekend, where we will be shooting from within vehicles a lot, and almost all the distances will be within 1-3 yards, where pistol use actually happens.

[Rambozo]

The Glock 21 requires monster hands to manage. I'm 6ft with fairly large hands, and the G21 is a bit much for me...needs a grip reduction job. G17's are a great training and utilitarian pistol, requiring no real maintenance, and still deliver the reliability record to beat still, which is funny considering the general attitude to them in 1986.

For a carry gun, the G19 is a great choice. I personally like the S&W M&P series pistols, and they have been as reliable for me so far as Glocks have been. I've experienced zero malfs with the M&P's in full-size 9mm and .40, as well as compact 9mm. I shoot a minimum of 300rds per session with pistol work, since it is probably the most perishable skill set. I'm trying to get away from .40 S&W, and use mostly 9mm. I'm getting ready to run an advanced concealed carry course this weekend, where we will be shooting from within vehicles a lot, and almost all the distances will be within 1-3 yards, where pistol use actually happens.

Well, I carry the Bersa .380, and I'm not looking for a replacement carry pistol, just a full size to shoot.

I very much like the 21, and should shoot it more. I just don't have a 9mm and am interested in the reduced recoil.

[VASCAR2]

The Glock 21 SF and the new 4th generation Glock 20/21 with interchangeable back strap really make this frame more manageable. A Sheriff's dept where I work part time just transitioned to the 4th generation Glock 21. They have one female Officer and she actually prefers the model 21 4th gen to the 3rd gen Glock 22 she previously carried. I'll probably end up with a 4th gen model 21 and a barrel for the 10 MM. Glock accessories and spare parts are about as common as for the 1911. A Glock 20 with 15 rounds on tap sounds kind of comforting in areas with large wild boars.