Next AR: 6.5Grendel or 5.56mm?

[roo_ster]

Howdy:

Next AR15 Build: 6.5Grendel or 5.56,mm?

Just finished a lightweight(1) hunting 6.5G AR15 build for wife and daughter. It is the family's only AR15-pattern rifle. Went well and happy with it and its effectiveness on medium game. I have 3 more lower receivers to build up and am wondering if I ought to make the next AR15 build in 5.56mm or stick with 6.5G. No interest in other AR15 chamberings at the moment.

Primary objective is a range gun to improve marksmanship with a centerfire rifle(5) at reasonable cost. Secondary objective maybe hunting(4) or run & gun carbine games. M-4gery size and weight (16" bbl, 6.5lbs) would be max in those dimensions, though lighter is always more desireable. Would have adjustable/collapsible stock to accommodate small to large shooters. Flat top. Ambivalent on irons or FSB vs gas block. A set of M4A1/M16A2-equivalent irons are a fine training tool to show how irons can be used to hit at range, given execution of fundamentals.

I don't plan on using an AR15 for home defense. We have 12ga shotguns and handguns for that. All our HD-ready firearms utilize relatively lower-pressure rounds(2) for the usual reasons(3).

Also not interested in suppressors until the NFA is reformed to treat them more reasonably so I don't have to drag paperwork around, pay $200 for the privilege, and suchlike. Ditto SBRs and pseudo-SBRs with its-not-a-stocks.

The availability of $5/box Wolf steel case makes this a harder decision, as such cheap blasting ammo is good enough for initial short range training (less than 100 yards) and most run & gun carbine games. Have not shot 5.56mm since leaving the service. Is better 5.56mm available at $0.25/round? That would make a difference.

Thanks for y'all's time. Took me a while to execute on my first build, but now that I have all the build tools and a better idea of what is involved, I expect this build will be limited by how much discretionary income I can direct to it.









(1) Less than 6lbs before optics. No exotic super-lightweight parts. Spent most $$$ of budget on bbl, trigger, scope.

(2) .45ACP, .38spl, 12ga

(3) I have done puh-lenty of CQB courtesy of Uncle Sam and have learned to live with the accompanying tinnitus. No need to subject family to that when viable HD alternatives exist that reduce the probability of tinnitus.

(4) Medium game down to varmints, hogs inclusive.

(5) Have a 300m range within a half hour and some 1000m ranges I have never visited more than an hour away.

[Popeye212]

Since I built the Grendel my M&P Sport hasn't been shot in almost a year. Grendel is a lot more fun and is more versatile than the 5.56. YMMV

[Labrat198]

The cost and availability of 5.56 ammo would be the only reason for going that route in my opinion.

I wouldn't recommend going after medium game with 5.56 and the 6.5 will do better at the longer ranges.

[Jeepster18_88]

5.56 is obviously cheaper whether you reload or not. Also, the availability of ammo is much better and easier to consistently get quality ammo. I've never shot past 300 yards so I'll let others speak for that area. If it was only a 300 yard range gun, 5.56 would get my vote. Since you mentioned double duty for hunting, IMO, the 5.56 is a let down especially in the carbine length barrels. I've dropped enough hogs with mine and watched them flop, get up and run for a very very long ways. I switched to a 7.62x39 and haven't shot the 5.56 at anything other than paper since. My vote would be between the 7.62x39 and 6.5 Grendel since you want to be able to hunt with it. I'd pick the 7.62x39 for under 250-300 yard shooting and 6.5 if I wanted further. I don't think it's possible to beat the performance of the x39 on tough hogs at closer ranges because they all have went straight down with broadside shots. Honestly, why not make one of each and then you'll have 3 rifles that all work well for their intended use.

[StoneHendge]

For running and gunning carbine games, grendel would put you at a significant disadvantage with recoil. And that's before assuming you can get Wolf to shoot better than 3 MOA.

[VASCAR2]

I have 22 LR rimfire AR-15’s which are as reliable as any rimfire can be. I benefit greatly from the added trigger time I get shooting 22 LR. The noise, blast and down range hazard is much reduced compared to centerfire ( I shoot at my house). I learned a long time ago if you hand a younger shooter a semi auto with a full mag they’ll hand it back when it’s empty. I really like shooting steel plates off hand with pistols and rifles. With 22 rimfire I can shoot at fairly close range and not destroy my plates.

I used to shoot a 22 LR which duplicated the weight, balance and handling characteristics of my duty rifle. Same for my pistols, carried Glock pistols and shot AA kits on dedicated Glock frames. There is a place for 5.56/223 AR-15’s but I shoot my 22 LR AR-15’s way more than 5.56/223. I also shoot 6.5 Grendel way more than 5.56/223.

Hand someone a 22 LR AR-15 and let them shoot a few steel plates and rarely will they not enjoy the experience. With the current availability of 22 LR ammunition it is worth considering.

[js8588]

You should have at least one 556 AR. Much as I prefer the Grendel, get a 556 squared away.

[A5BLASTER]

My personal feelings is if I need or want to shoot a 22 rifle I will pick up my Henry lever gun or my ruger 10/22.

I don't play 3 gun commando games so can't speak to that but for everything else you stated the grendel will out do the 22 claiber chambered upper.

[Mad Charlie]

The only reason for my 5.56's is for ammo availability in case of TEOTWAWKI. Due to limited mobility, I would be staying put anyway, so I'm not really sure about that. I have spare Grendel parts and plenty of components.

[Popeye212]

On further review with three lowers might as well make one 5.56. Not that expensive to build one. If you stay within budget... There are several guys in here that have done "budget" builds. I tried but didn't quite make it....lol

[roo_ster]

Thanks for the help. I asked a buddy at work the same question. Of the two options, 6.5g or 5.56, he suggested .300blackout. Heh.

Then he mentioned palmetto state armory had a carbine kit on sale for less than 300usd. I looked at that and pulled the trigger. So i will run 5.56 for the next ar15.

Thanks again for your insights. The af15 after this one is likely a 6.5g, with some serious usd sunk into the barrel, more than i just spent on the whole 5.56 kit from psa.

[Jeepster18_88]

I don't think you made a bad decision. 5.56 has been around for a long time and ammo makers as well as gun builders have it down solid. I've given up on hunting with mine but they're all 1:7 twist which I don't think helps any with bullet performance. I tried a ton of different bullets and they all shot really well, but on game performance was lacking regardless of bullet weight.

As for the 300BO, unless you're running a can and sub Sonics, I don't see the point. The 7.62x39 shoots faster, hits harder, costs less for ammo, and handles a little haevier bullet. I've read about reliability issues, but I've never experienced any except with a flat nose 30-30 bullet that I could have fixed with a little cleaning on the magazine. From my experience, it isn't picky about what you feed it like the Grendels has been so far. Honestly, I wouldn't be still be using an AR for hunting and I never would have bought a Grendel if I hadn't tried the 7.62x39 in the woods. On paper it doesn't look like much, but the difference in terminal performance is unbelievable when compared to the 5.56. I'm hoping that the Grendel is able to match it in the field and allow longer range.

[nawagner]

Agree with almost everything. Grendel is great, you should have a 5.56 just because. I won't shoot wolf ammo as you mentioned though. Just not worth the trouble I've had. I learned long ago that there is a reason cheap ammo is cheap. And I do mean cheap, not inexpensive. That said, I have not run Wolf in my Grendel so maybe I shouldn't knock it until I try it.

[lazyengineer]

Agree with almost everything. Grendel is great, you should have a 5.56 just because. I won't shoot wolf ammo as you mentioned though. Just not worth the trouble I've had. I learned long ago that there is a reason cheap ammo is cheap. And I do mean cheap, not inexpensive. That said, I have not run Wolf in my Grendel so maybe I shouldn't knock it until I try it.

Mostly my opinion as well. 5.56 is cheap, common, and effective; if you have an AR platform, having a 5.56 upper just makes sense.

As to steel. my opinion is anything X39 runs steel all day great, anything Western such as X45, does not. .223 is a long skinny round with a whole lot of surface area to volume ratio to stick. x39 is a shorter fatter round, with a lower surface area to volume ratio, and tends to run steel reliably. 6.5 Grendel is a groovy marketing name for a round that is really just 6.5x39. Same length, same case head. And in my experience, Steel Grendel ammo runs very reliably, and quite a bit more accurate than I was expecting as well. I'll purposely run 60 rounds of steel, then switch to brass and run 20 rounds just to test it worst case. Grendel takes it no problem. In 5.56 that's jam-city as the goo sticks to brass more than steel, so fresh brass in a steel fouled chamber usually ends badly.

With the Grendel, at 25-30 cents a shot, I can't even buy reloading bullets for that. So I run Steel Grendel for anything not serious with it, and agreed: I won't touch steel .223. Too many problems.

[Jeepster18_88]

I've heard people say that the Steel 5.56 is nothing but problems, but I've personally never had even a single issue. Several thousand rounds of Hornady Steel match, Tulammo, Wolf, etc. and I use brass cased from time to time. I read so much about how horrible the steel cased is, so I decided to run it and I haven't bothered cleaning the barrel since I got the gun back in 2012 IIRC. I did this intentionally because I wanted to have a supply of ammo and cheaper is easier, but I wanted to make sure it was reliable. So far, no problems with either laquer coated or polymer coated cases. And I've gotten it pretty hot a few times. I don't understand how some have "too many problems" and others like me have zero.