6.5 Grendel Worth It and Why?

[22lr]

Hello;

I have a friend who is single, middle aged and childless with a good bit of time and money on his hands. He is in love with all the 6.5 cartridges (Grendel & Creedmoor) except for the fact that we live in an area where the longest available range is 200y, maybe a little longer if you drive a while, and hunting is only with shotgun, muzzleloader or archery not just here but all neighboring states.

I am pretty good at shooting because I engage as often as I can. My style is 22's, handguns and pistol caliber carbines like 357 lever guns or a few traditional tactical, battle or hunting type center fire rifles. I feel given the short ranges I have to shoot other than with 22lr ballistics are meaningless and even there I am not maxing out any of my guns, even the rimfire ones. Hell I can hit clay pigeons and sometimes their fragments on the 200y berm with open sights so I am not that bad!

Is 6.5 Grendel really that relevant? When you can get a cheap battle rifle that shoots 308 for more power and low cost (BRASS!) milsurp ammo what relevance does this cartridge have especially if you don't have any long ranges or compete?

Thanks in advance.

[BCHunter]

It is really a matter of what you enjoy? I have a hard time finding a range over 100 yards. But am also completely impressed with 6.5 grendel and 6.5 cm. And chasing a one hole group.

The grendel is on ar15 platform. 308 is on ar 10 platform, so you can build an upper in grendel and swap out your .223 and get near .308 performance with low recoil, in a smaller lighter package. Yes .308 is more powerful, but the platform is more expensive, even though the ammo is cheaper.

I got into grendel for hunting whitetail. A more capable round then .223, in a handy package that my nephews could handle.
But I find myself shooting the grendel most often, even though I have .22, .17hmr, .223 .243. 7mm-08, .30-06, .300 wsm, .44, .45acp.

The grendel and cm has made me a better shooter, if has me refocused my technique and I have shoot groups that I would never of thought possible, with still room for improvement.

[lazyengineer]

Ha! Well first off, you have to admit asking here has a little bit of selection-bias!

But all the same, the short answer is Grendel remains an outstanding choice at essentially any distance out to 1000+ yards. Everything it does at 800 yards it will do at 200 yards even better. At that distance, the shorter pistol configuration will allow a performance at 200 yards that even a standard 20" .223 AR15 just can't do; all while in the same size receiver set and small package.

I'd say BCHunter's reply pretty much nails it for my own thoughts (but I'm just one guy sharing his opinions). .308 is a large-frame rifle, and it's a whole other category of rifle, in weight and handling. Grendel is light and handy, yet hits harder than almost anything else in that sized gun. As distance increases, that differential gets even stronger; but the Grendel is more powerful at 100 yards, than it is at 300 yards; so there's no loss only shooting it 200 yards. yet, on the rare opportunity to stretch out to 400 + yards (single friend has the world of opportunities at his finger-tips); the Grendel can do it; and ethically drop a deer doing it. You can't do that with pretty much anything else in that size of rifle.

And at the same time, when your friend is just shooting in that 100-200 yard distance, he can shoot cheap Wolf Steel and just enjoy himself, plinking away with ammo in the .223 price spectrum doing it. Cheaper even than .308. Grendel is a Russian based cartridge dimension (unlike .308 and .223), and from what I can tell, a Grendel AR holds up and shoots steel much more pleasantly, than either of those cartridges will.

I would advise your friend get the 6.5 Grendel in a 16" or even pistol or SBR configuration, before the 6.5 Creedmoor. In my own progression, I'm not even sure if I would have bothered with a 6.5 CM AR10, had I started with the Grendel in the first place.

[grayfox]

OP from reading your post it seems like you might have your mind made up already, the value or worth of a particular firearm is in the eye of the shooter. I like the versatility and, as above, in an AR platform that I can take hunting -- 223 is not legal for deer in my state. But you have to make the choice in your own head otherwise it's no good no matter what.
I can travel multi-state to where it's legal (it's legal also in my state but just saying I'm not limited to neighboring states).

Any cheap rifle and cheap ammo will give you... well, cheap results, but if it floats your boat, no problems.
That's what made the AK47 the most widely used rifle in the world. Me personally, I'd like to do a bit better than that, but that's my decision and I'm fine in respecting yours for you.

[Lemonaid]

I have only about four months experience with the Grendel, but here is my two cents worth:
1. It's fun, low recoil and pleasant to shoot.
2. Very versatile, can be used for defense, varmints, game hunting, target shooting and long-ish range. The long range in the AR-15 platform is one place it really shines.
3. It's a puzzle. I have been working on getting my Grendel and myself to shoot better and there are a lot of pieces to experiment on.
4. As a results of my choice of choosing the lowest priced Grendel (Bear Creek Arsenal) the challenge of getting it to shoot well has me taking it apart, doing things to it and as a consequence learning a lot about the AR-15 platform. Sort of like getting a beater car that you can work on and not worry about ruining it (much).
5. Now I go to the range just about every week instead of a few times a year.
6. If you reload, the cost for the Grendel isn't very much extra than other calibers.

[Mesa1978]

I have shot: (in rifles)
.22 Short
.22 LR
.22 Magnum
22 Hornet
221 Fireball
220 Swift
223/5.56
243
6mm Remington
257 Roberts
6.5 Grendel
6.5 Creedmoor
6.5x284
7X57
7x61 S&H
7.5 Swiss
300 Blackout
7.62x39
308
30-06
300 Win Mag
300 H&H
375 H&H
416 Rigby
44 Magnum (Ruger Auto)
45-70
45-90
458 Win Mag
577 Nitro Express

(reloaded all the centerfires)

Of those, the most interesting and engaging, for me, were the Swift, Grendel and 45-90 in black powder. I've been working with the Grendel for years and still am in pursuit of that combination which joins velocity and accuracy within the constraints of the AR platform. It has been a lot of fun, as well as challenging and has kept me interested beyond expectations, especially when running an AR I have assembled from a collection of parts.

[rabiddawg]

Why are y’all feeding a obvious troll?

[22lr]

Thanks for the replies. I get it.

The one thing in common I see from the replies to this post is that people who enjoy this cartridge are detail oriented and like to tinker which is absolutely not me.

No troll here. Just looking for the rationale and counterargument on why he should stop harassing me to buy a gun like his and I found it since I am not into tinkering. I'll turn wrenches if it's convenient or to save money as through my business but I don't find stuff like this fun. I'd rather shoot more or work more to make more money than tinker or reload, it's not my thing.

For example my favorite AR is the Ruger SR-556 because it's gas piston and doesn't hardly ever need to be cleaned, just like I drive Toyotas because they are reliable and nearly maintenance free. I'll clean guns if I have to and know how to field strip them with ease, but I've never truly taken one apart as I'd rather just shoot them etc. FYI a few years back this same person suggested I get the 6.8spc upper which I did but never shot much as 556 is a better defense and plinking cartridge for what I can do with it.

Hunting wise no way I'd ever be able to use centerfire rifle. My state and all the neighbors allow only shotgun, muzzle loader or archery, and a bunch of neighbors as well as neighbors to the neighbors all have assault weapon bans making traveling to a place where you can hunt with what they consider an assault style centerfire rifle dicey.

Thanks for the replies.

[heldfast]

Sounds like I may be moving to your neighborhood, the way you describe it, and I am looking at the Grendel myself. I think you sussed out the attraction to Grendel - its for tinkerers. It also seems well suited for those looking to improve their marksmanship in a way that might bleed over into their other firearms pursuits.

[LR1955]

Hello;

I have a friend who is single, middle aged and childless with a good bit of time and money on his hands. He is in love with all the 6.5 cartridges (Grendel & Creedmoor) except for the fact that we live in an area where the longest available range is 200y, maybe a little longer if you drive a while, and hunting is only with shotgun, muzzleloader or archery not just here but all neighboring states.

I am pretty good at shooting because I engage as often as I can. My style is 22's, handguns and pistol caliber carbines like 357 lever guns or a few traditional tactical, battle or hunting type center fire rifles. I feel given the short ranges I have to shoot other than with 22lr ballistics are meaningless and even there I am not maxing out any of my guns, even the rimfire ones. Hell I can hit clay pigeons and sometimes their fragments on the 200y berm with open sights so I am not that bad!

Is 6.5 Grendel really that relevant? When you can get a cheap battle rifle that shoots 308 for more power and low cost (BRASS!) milsurp ammo what relevance does this cartridge have especially if you don't have any long ranges or compete?

Thanks in advance.

22L:

Your second post to the Grendel Forum basically states that your other rifles and cartridges do the same job for less cost than the Grendel so why should you own a Grendel? You are right, since you have no intentions of using a firearm for anything needing ease of use, economy, and performance, you need to stay with your service rifles and surplus ammo. Why did you bother joining the forum in the first place?

You said "Is 6.5 Grendel really that relevant? When you can get a cheap battle rifle that shoots 308 for more power and low cost (BRASS!) milsurp ammo what relevance does this cartridge have especially if you don't have any long ranges or compete?"

If it doesn't matter, why did you mention power? And shooting clay pigeons from time to time doesn't exactly require a round of SLAP. And I haven't seen any decent surplus 7.62 NATO costing less than pretty good factory loaded Grendel ammunition.

One thing I can almost assure you is that even a rack grade Grendel shooting bulk Hornady factory loads will outshoot a service grade military rifle shooting surplus ammunition. And that the Grendel will be more pleasant to shoot.

LR55

[NightFisher]

With your ranges and uses I would think the choice would be between the different chamberings of the AR15 platform and the obvious winner for a non-hunting round that is accurate out to 200-300 yards would be the 5.56 or .223. Cheap and/or accurate.

[PPCLI-JIM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CqY412-x7Y&t=17s This is why I like mine.It groups well at 100m 109 yd for y'all and im ranging like this at 500 m 545 yd

[22lr]

22L:

Your second post to the Grendel Forum basically states that your other rifles and cartridges do the same job for less cost than the Grendel so why should you own a Grendel? You are right, since you have no intentions of using a firearm for anything needing ease of use, economy, and performance, you need to stay with your service rifles and surplus ammo. Why did you bother joining the forum in the first place?

You said "Is 6.5 Grendel really that relevant? When you can get a cheap battle rifle that shoots 308 for more power and low cost (BRASS!) milsurp ammo what relevance does this cartridge have especially if you don't have any long ranges or compete?"

If it doesn't matter, why did you mention power? And shooting clay pigeons from time to time doesn't exactly require a round of SLAP. And I haven't seen any decent surplus 7.62 NATO costing less than pretty good factory loaded Grendel ammunition.

One thing I can almost assure you is that even a rack grade Grendel shooting bulk Hornady factory loads will outshoot a service grade military rifle shooting surplus ammunition. And that the Grendel will be more pleasant to shoot.

LR55

I mention power because my favorite outdoor range rounds might be 22lr, 357 mag, and 556. But 7.26 Nato gongs steel a lot louder and that's fun to me.

Also my favorite shooting experience is to rent land up north from where we live and bring various household items. We have a big vehicle and I save things like keyboards, printers, monitors or just buy broken ones on ebay to shoot when we take trips to rural locations because the range I belong to forbids the shooting of anything but standard paper/steel/pigeon targets. Wife doesn't care but the kids and I basically destroy just about anything and we all really love that. And more power vs printers or empty water jugs always ups the fun factor especially if my 10 and 12 year old boys are shooting at the same thing at the same time in the same spot!

Don't get me wrong, I shoot for accuracy at close range like 5 or 10 yards to make the same hole which is a trick I learned in archery because at that range if you are not shooting in the same place then you have to remember how it felt and if you catch yourself doing that mistake again you stop and rethink your shot.

I really don't think 7.62 NATO or any of the other centerfire (non magnum) cartdrige has that much recoil in the end. As long as the rifle is not too light (like Savage Axis) they are all kind of the same to me up to 200y. 308 in a semi auto, 6.8spc, 30-30, 7.62x39, 30 06, 30-40 krag, 44 mag, they really don't change much up to 200y. I understand that the Grendel has some capabilities that promote the AR a little bit but like all cartridges you can tinker with them to do that. All cartridges then are pretty tinker-able but the tinkering of any of them, including the Grendel is not relevant to me.

Well OK, so basically 6.5 is just another centerfire cartridge inside of 200y. I just needed ammo, no pun intended to say that 556 is probably my value, followed by 762 which I buy in bulk for super cheap. Not dissing the Grendel, just wanting to hear why people like it (which I knew were the reasons why I shouldn't) to shut down all such inquiries and requests for me to do same as I already own too many rifles, at least according to everyone I know.

I am not such a slob, I can hit fragments of clay pigeon, not just the whole thing but little pieces at 200y with most cartridges I shoot. I just went to Vegas and did an outdoor shoot that involved my hitting man sized targets at 720y with a Dragunov once I figured the hold so I am not that bad. I think I could be competitive in precision rifle but.... I just don't care. Seems like too much effort when I can hit everything I want with minimal cost and involvement. I used to race cars at a low level (track days & autocross) but gave up because I had to spend way more time preparing and fixing than I did actually doing the activities. Shooting and archery attracted me because I could just do it and do it pretty well with minimal maintenance especially since I did it as a kid and my kids love it so it's more family friendly.

I've gravitated to 556 just because of its plinking value, agreed with Nightfisher. I respect those who enjoy the Grendel but your reasons for doing so are not relevant to me and it helps me rebut requests to join the club. Thanks for giving me ammo to rebuff my pain in the ass friend who cringes at my shooting hundreds of rounds of cheapo ammo every range trip to his high priced, match grade 30-40 rounds of 6.5's trying to make the same hole. Guess who is a better shot, well not he!

[A5BLASTER]

Ohhhhhhhhhh snap did somebody say pop corn time? Going get the extra butter and a cold soda, the show is about too began.

[LR1955]

I mention power because my favorite outdoor range rounds might be 22lr, 357 mag, and 556. But 7.26 Nato gongs steel a lot louder and that's fun to me.

Also my favorite shooting experience is to rent land up north from where we live and bring various household items. We have a big vehicle and I save things like keyboards, printers, monitors or just buy broken ones on ebay to shoot when we take trips to rural locations because the range I belong to forbids the shooting of anything but standard paper/steel/pigeon targets. Wife doesn't care but the kids and I basically destroy just about anything and we all really love that. And more power vs printers or empty water jugs always ups the fun factor especially if my 10 and 12 year old boys are shooting at the same thing at the same time in the same spot!

Don't get me wrong, I shoot for accuracy at close range like 5 or 10 yards to make the same hole which is a trick I learned in archery because at that range if you are not shooting in the same place then you have to remember how it felt and if you catch yourself doing that mistake again you stop and rethink your shot.

I really don't think 7.62 NATO or any of the other centerfire (non magnum) cartdrige has that much recoil in the end. As long as the rifle is not too light (like Savage Axis) they are all kind of the same to me up to 200y. 308 in a semi auto, 6.8spc, 30-30, 7.62x39, 30 06, 30-40 krag, 44 mag, they really don't change much up to 200y. I understand that the Grendel has some capabilities that promote the AR a little bit but like all cartridges you can tinker with them to do that. All cartridges then are pretty tinker-able but the tinkering of any of them, including the Grendel is not relevant to me.

Well OK, so basically 6.5 is just another centerfire cartridge inside of 200y. I just needed ammo, no pun intended to say that 556 is probably my value, followed by 762 which I buy in bulk for super cheap. Not dissing the Grendel, just wanting to hear why people like it (which I knew were the reasons why I shouldn't) to shut down all such inquiries and requests for me to do same as I already own too many rifles, at least according to everyone I know.

I am not such a slob, I can hit fragments of clay pigeon, not just the whole thing but little pieces at 200y with most cartridges I shoot. I just went to Vegas and did an outdoor shoot that involved my hitting man sized targets at 720y with a Dragunov once I figured the hold so I am not that bad. I think I could be competitive in precision rifle but.... I just don't care. Seems like too much effort when I can hit everything I want with minimal cost and involvement. I used to race cars at a low level (track days & autocross) but gave up because I had to spend way more time preparing and fixing than I did actually doing the activities. Shooting and archery attracted me because I could just do it and do it pretty well with minimal maintenance especially since I did it as a kid and my kids love it so it's more family friendly.

I've gravitated to 556 just because of its plinking value, agreed with Nightfisher. I respect those who enjoy the Grendel but your reasons for doing so are not relevant to me and it helps me rebut requests to join the club. Thanks for giving me ammo to rebuff my pain in the ass friend who cringes at my shooting hundreds of rounds of cheapo ammo every range trip to his high priced, match grade 30-40 rounds of 6.5's trying to make the same hole. Guess who is a better shot, well not he!

22LR:

I agree with you. In your case, stick with the surplus ammo and service rifles.

Let me add something. Since you have no interest in the Grendel, there is no real reason for you to be here. So, you ought to go to a forum oriented towards surplus ammo and surplus rifles.

So, I will lock this thread before it gets out of hand.

LR55