Shortest flash-hider I can get?

[LR1955]

Looking at both.

The advantages of Muzzle break are of course obvious. But where it gets interesting, is there is a new NRA Mid-Range equipment allowance, called AR-Tactical. Where you can compete with an up to 20" AR15 up to .308, with optics AND a bipod; but is not F-class. So you are shooting on a standard NRA 600 yard target the sling shooters are using, rather than an F-class target. It's an interesting new division. However, rules require no muzzle breaks; so that's one of the reason I'm flash-hider curious; as a 20" 6.5 Grendel with optics could be an interesting cross-usage gun; that I could compete in that category with as well, and do it in 6.5 Grendel. 6.5 Grendel is mild enough, I'm not sure I really will notice a lot of benefit to a muzzle break on a 20".

As to flash hider advantages; aside from the aesthetic appearance that I like - they also are crown protectors. My gear see's a hard life, and when I'd doing things like slinging up, sometimes I'll just plunk the rifle down into the mat, right on the muzzle, since the flash-hider is protecting the crown. I also tend to store my rifles upside down at times, and the flash-hider protects the muzzle there as well. I don't think they are useless at all, they diffuse muzzle flash, which matters in lower light; and they protect the crown.

LE:

You need a flash suppressor to protect a rebated crown on a steel barrel?

You would have to take a hammer and deliberately pound the muzzle with the hammer to do any damage. Keeping it in the gun safe barrel down won't damage a crown.

The A-2 flash suppressors do act like a comp to a degree since the vents direct gas upwards. I have some with a comp, some with a standard flash suppressor, and some without either. Comps are great for something like IPSC but are otherwise real hard on the hearing. Flash suppressors are more prone to cause problems than fix any so if you get a flash suppressor, make sure it is installed properly and keep it installed properly. For what you are doing, you really don't need one so why chance it giving you problems?

If you want to shoot that new AR Tactical stuff, it will pay for you to go to some of the matches and see if the guys who win are using flash suppressors.

LR55

[lazyengineer]

LE:

You need a flash suppressor to protect a rebated crown on a steel barrel?

You would have to take a hammer and deliberately pound the muzzle with the hammer to do any damage. Keeping it in the gun safe barrel down won't damage a crown.

The A-2 flash suppressors do act like a comp to a degree since the vents direct gas upwards. I have some with a comp, some with a standard flash suppressor, and some without either. Comps are great for something like IPSC but are otherwise real hard on the hearing. Flash suppressors are more prone to cause problems than fix any so if you get a flash suppressor, make sure it is installed properly and keep it installed properly. For what you are doing, you really don't need one so why chance it giving you problems?

If you want to shoot that new AR Tactical stuff, it will pay for you to go to some of the matches and see if the guys who win are using flash suppressors.

LR55

In High Power - the guys who win are using flash suppressors:

[BluntForceTrauma]

If I understand the physics of flash suppression, the longer the tines the better. I would think that if one got a flash hider that was too short, it's effectiveness would be diminished to the point of superfluence.

[LR1955]

If you think having a flash suppressor means the difference between winning or losing for the top ten service rifle competitors in the country, find out why the difference is the flash suppressor.

The picture appears to be a Army team member shooting Infantry Trophy. No mat and a magazine to the right. Who knows, maybe the flash suppressor keeps the muzzle down and gives the shooter one more shot in the time allotted for the string? Could be that it kicks up less debris and maybe that gives the shooter a better chance of one more shot in the allotted time? Maybe the coaches think having one is better than not.

I am ambivalent about them but the last thing I would consider when debating having one or not is protecting the crown.

If you are going to get one, I would get the M-16A2 style flash hider and would make sure it was attached properly.

LR55

[A5BLASTER]

OP. The standard A2 flash hider will add a grand total of 1.400 length too your barrel. Just measured it for you from the crown of my 16 inch AA barrel to the face of the a2 flash hider.

Is that lil bit of length and nonnoticable increase in weight going too really effect anything?

While I agree I prefer too have something more then a thread protector on my rifles. I really don't see the need/benefit too trying to source an even shorter flash hider.

[lazyengineer]

OP. The standard A2 flash hider will add a grand total of 1.400 length too your barrel. Just measured it for you from the crown of my 16 inch AA barrel to the face of the a2 flash hider.

Is that lil bit of length and nonnoticable increase in weight going too really effect anything?

While I agree I prefer too have something more then a thread protector on my rifles. I really don't see the need/benefit too trying to source an even shorter flash hider.

You're probably right - just looking.

[stanc]

Going with a 20" build next. If I can trim off a little bit at the end by going with something shorter than the standard A2 (.308 thread) FH; I'm interested. Curious if others have investigated this as well.

Your question made me curious about this, too. So, I did some searching.

The only flash suppressors I found that look as if they might be a bit shorter than the A2 style are:

VLTOR VC-302 Flash Hider Short Version


SIG Sauer CQB Flash Hider


Rampage XS 4 Prong Flash Hider (noted in post #2)


A couple of other possibilities:

https://day2firearms.com/product/a1-flash-hider-308/

https://modernwarriors.com/product/griffin-armament-taper-mount-mini-flash-hider/

[lazyengineer]

If you think having a flash suppressor means the difference between winning or losing for the top ten service rifle competitors in the country, find out why the difference is the flash suppressor.

The picture appears to be a Army team member shooting Infantry Trophy. No mat and a magazine to the right. Who knows, maybe the flash suppressor keeps the muzzle down and gives the shooter one more shot in the time allotted for the string? Could be that it kicks up less debris and maybe that gives the shooter a better chance of one more shot in the allotted time? Maybe the coaches think having one is better than not.

I am ambivalent about them but the last thing I would consider when debating having one or not is protecting the crown.

If you are going to get one, I would get the M-16A2 style flash hider and would make sure it was attached properly.

LR55

The original implication being responded to was that that match winners don't use flash hiders. Some do - it's not a detriment. As to protecting the crown, yea, they do. Even more useful for a general purpose gun that can go hunting, bounce around the back of a truck, climbing up trees, a sling breaks and the muzzle hits the deck, slide in and out of a rifle case (or blanket, or towel) with lint or dirt or whatever wanting to go into holes, like a muzzle, etc. I've had all of that happen, and a had a muzzle device prevent my barrel and crown from filling up with mud, etc. You don't need a muzzle device, but they aren't useless. And the less velvet life the rifle will see, the more useful they are.

[lazyengineer]

Thanks! The VLTOR is interesting in particular. As to the goal, the standard Grendel BBL is 18", which everyone seems to like because they are shorter and handy, yet near the same power of a 20". But they also have 1.5" of extension in the form of a flash-hider (typically). I just bought a 20", which is only 0.5" longer if I take off the flash-hider (an option, but as noted, I like muzzle devices). So... my curiosity was can I run with something shorter, still have something useful on the end of the gun, yet mitigate my compromise from going with the 2" longer BBL, by running a shorter flash-hider or break. Then we got into arguments about what match winners use. Anyway, back on topic, the two most interesting ones I'm seeing are the Brownells Mini-Comp, and the ones you just posted Stanc. between those, I suppose my main interest would be whichever is lightest...

Also, I don't understand the point behind the twist of the tines, on that bottom one.

[centerfire]

Griffin Armament has a mini three prong flash hider.

[centerfire]

National Match free float tube.

[LR1955]

The original implication being responded to was that that match winners don't use flash hiders. Some do - it's not a detriment. As to protecting the crown, yea, they do. Even more useful for a general purpose gun that can go hunting, bounce around the back of a truck, climbing up trees, a sling breaks and the muzzle hits the deck, slide in and out of a rifle case (or blanket, or towel) with lint or dirt or whatever wanting to go into holes, like a muzzle, etc. I've had all of that happen, and a had a muzzle device prevent my barrel and crown from filling up with mud, etc. You don't need a muzzle device, but they aren't useless. And the less velvet life the rifle will see, the more useful they are.

LE:

You are reading way too much into my comments.

I was not criticizing your decision to buy a flash suppressor or muzzle device of some sort. I offered a couple of scenarios where a flash suppressor can mean one more shot into the target and those can add up over something like Infantry Trophy. Am sure they can have value but am not sure how much or what level of shooter can realize the difference. You know, we used those plastic caps that Klem mentioned but not all the time. You shoot through them. And of course we had flash suppressors. Those caps work but you got to release them if you immerse the rifle in water to let the water drain out the barrel. I have shot a lot of crap out of a barrel but water is not one I want to mess with. And they aren't joking when they say to pull the bolt back a little to let the water drain out.

With all the abuse I have seen given to rifles and carbines in my life, I haven't seen anyone damage a rebated crown. So I just got to ask how you damaged the crown of one of your rifles? Not trying to start an argument or hijack a thread. Just asking.

LR55

[lazyengineer]

LE:

You are reading way too much into my comments.

Probably, sometimes forums become bitch fests of how much smarter we think we are; or interpretation that others doing that (right or wrong). It's cool.

So I just got to ask how you damaged the crown of one of your rifles? Not trying to start an argument or hijack a thread. Just asking.
LR55

Fair question. I've seen it in some of the military surplus rifles over the years; most of which have a rounded crown like the muzzle of a 1903 or 1917; that is at least somewhat rebated. Dings and the like. Also, I really did have a sling pop on my 6.5 Creedmoor in the field once, and bam, muzzle first right into the gravel and muddy dirt. One of those rocks could have easily hit inside the crown rebate; if I didn't have a comp on there. My bore was clear, by my muzzle device took both the hit, and filled with mud. I was able to pluck that out without concern by basically swirling it in a pond; and then took a deer with that rifle 2 hours later. Years earlier, I witnessed someone with a bare-muzzle send his barrel tip right into the dirt (Same location even), didn't have a cleaning rod, and was essentially out of the hunt for the rest of the day - it left an impression.

[Klem]

Lazy,

Needs vs. wants - As a civilian there's not a lot of need for what you want and regardless, there are other muzzle devices that do a better job catering for your needs. But, if you want something because you like it, then I'm perfectly fine with that. It may even be almost useful. Just don't sell us on the idea that it is a rational choice.

[centerfire]

I saw your edits and the deleted posts, let it go already.