What you guys think about J&T?

[Norsk]

Hi new guy hear I'm building my own grendel atm but was thinking about trying a 24 inch bull barrel kit from J&T. I know it wont win me any "cool guy" points at the range but will it shoot? Or would I be better off just spending a few more buck's? I wont be doing any match shooting with it but I still like to see good groups. Main use for it will be coyote hunting and maybe a deer or two. Sorry if my questions are basic and somewhat hard to answer but what you exspect from a FNG

[warped]

The main idea here is to buy once and cry once, there is nothing wrong with a J&T kit but for just a few dollars more there are better bbls.

Shilen, Satern, Templar, just to name a few.


IIRC Ricky was second place in last year's sniper comp using a Templar bbl and a WCI brake, he was shooting 5.56mm and competing against other calibers.

Does that make you realize the value of a great bbl?

[bwaites]

Hi new guy hear I'm building my own grendel atm but was thinking about trying a 24 inch bull barrel kit from J&T. I know it wont win me any "cool guy" points at the range but will it shoot? Or would I be better off just spending a few more buck's? I wont be doing any match shooting with it but I still like to see good groups. Main use for it will be coyote hunting and maybe a deer or two. Sorry if my questions are basic and somewhat hard to answer but what you exspect from a FNG

It will shoot. Expect 1-2 MOA with just about anything, which is what a hunting rifle should do, and with the right bullet you can get it sub MOA, I expect.

It will be mostly dependent on where in the spectrum your barrel is. There aren't really any bad J&T barrels, just some better than others. With Satern, Templar, Shilen, etc. you really are paying for consistency from one barrel to the next. They all shoot from those guys.

[Norsk]

Thanks for the input guys. I get buy once cry once and the grendel I'm building I'm not cutting any corners but I'm doing the build over time. So I started looking into a less costly rifle to get into my hands while I build my "real rifle" and once done with it I would give the J&T to my wife. I just dont want to buy junk if I can get it to shoot close to an inch I'll be happy with it.

[longdayjake]

The J&T is not junk. I know they are cheap, but they actually work pretty darn well. I am very pleased with mine as it is NOT a range toy. I have killed quite a few chucks and even an elk with mine. However, if I were to do it again I would just build my own from cheaper aero precision parts and get a VERY nice barrel.

[LRRPF52]

Gents,

If you really want to save a bunch of money on building an AR, but still want high quality parts, there are ways to do it. You have to decide if you want a billet or standard upper receiver first. There is sound thinking behind using a beefier upper, although many standard uppers with great barrels have been able to shoot great. You can get a DPMS low-pro upper from Midway for $81 right now if you go the beefier upper route, but you might want to true it so the barrel extension flange is perfectly square to the action race ways if needed. This is a machinist task if you pursue it.

If you use a standard M4 upper, you can get DSA uppers from B-store pretty cheap, or blems from BCM or LAR ( I get blems from LAR for $48!!!!, and they only had .001" shaved off the top of the brass deflector where it adjoins the upper under the Picatinny rail...before being finished-nothing wrong with them at all, unless you're a CNC laser ISO-9001 QC station. They're actually better than any other M4 upper I have ordered from other sources, with a much better finish and tighter fit to the McKay lowers from NoDak. They sold out on those really quick.)

I rarely pay more than $75 for perfectly fine off-name 7075 T6 lowers. I was getting them for $65, but those are sold out now. Check with NoDak Spud for those under "A2 lowers". I have bunches of them, and they are great lowers with Type III hardcoat anodizing.

If you're getting a 6.5 Grendel barrel/bolt combo from a reputable manufacturer, you can get some good deals on a complete 5.56 BCG or just the bolt carrier, cam pin, firing pin, and firing pin retaining pin. I usually get my bolt carriers from Bravo Company USA, as they are the cleanest and best-made Milspec M16 weight Bolt Carriers I have found so far. I get a stripped carrier for $51, and build it up with Milspec gas keys and permanent thread-locking compound after checking fit/function with the gas tube alignment. You can get a rifle-length gas system kit with the gas key, gas tube, roll pin, & extra gas rings for $23 from Midway IIRC.

You can shop around Brownell's and Midway and find good deals on extension tubes ($18), recoil springs ($10 for 3-pack), and I would recommend balancing your buffer with your gas system length/barrel length/and bullet weights. I like the Spike's Tactical Tungsten powder buffer, ST-T2, for carbine stocks. They are priced about the same or less than other heavy buffers.

If you're getting a match trigger, just order the Lower Parts Kit without the trigger mechanism and pistol grip for about $30. You don't need a crappy hammer or trigger anyway, or you can get the full kit and polish your trigger/hammer sear engagement surfaces, and use reduced power springs to cut your trigger weight down and make the quality of the pull smooth.

There are some bare-bones free-float tubes available for less than $50 bucks if you shop around, and YHM low-pro gas blocks are $25. Everyone usually uses grips and stocks of their preference, so there are literally tons of A2 stocks and grips floating around for a song. I've got boxes of A2 grips that I will probably never use.

As long as the heart of your system is a quality bolt and barrel, with good springs, functional mags, and the rest is properly-fitted and gas system is balanced, you'll be fine with AR's. I prefer to Cerakote them before assembling, which adds service life, protects from any corrosion, abrasion, humidity, skin salts, etc., and looks amazing.

I had written this up before on the old forum with all the links to these fine sources of quality parts on a dime. Let me know if there is interest in me doing this again, as I'm all about saving money so I can spend it on ammo and gas to the range.

LRRPF52

[StoneTower]

"If you're getting a match trigger, just order the Lower Parts Kit without the trigger mechanism and pistol grip for about $30. You don't need a crappy hammer or trigger anyway, or you can get the full kit and polish your trigger/hammer sear engagement surfaces, and use reduced power springs to cut your trigger weight down and make the quality of the pull smooth."

Where are you getting the LPK less trigger group for $30. Is it a quality kit? I have used Armalite kits but I paid almost $60 for my AR10 LPK less trigger and I had to hunt down some trigger pins to go with the Timney trigger I installed.

Thanks,

David

[warped]

Bob at Templar said to give him a call, custom from him is the same price as standards, because Bob does whatever the customers want, while giving good advice.

You just can't get better than that in a customer service area, equal maybe, never better.

919-757-7085

BTW I was really WRONG and ashamed of myself for saying Ricky was second place last year.


HE WON 1st PLACE!

[LRRPF52]

I order DPMS lower parts kits from Brownell's, and there is an option to get the LPK without the trigger mechanism, which I don't need anyway. I really like using the JP Triggers and Geissele triggers for 2-stage. It's hard to beat an EDM wire cut sear, and even the low-price Geissele blows away all of the RRA, Armalite, Knight's, JARD, Timney, and other 2-stage triggers I've felt.

I haven't had any issues with the numerous LPK's I've ordered through B-store. Back about 10 years ago, I did get some kits that were occasionally missing a part or two, but I don't recall the vendor or source then. So far, the DPMS kits I've ordered over the past few years have all been 100%, but I will remind everyone that true Milspec lower parts are tested in some way for imperfections after the MIM process. Usually, this only applies to you if you're running an AR10 suppressed, due to the increased bolt velocity and carrier mass, causing damage to the bolt catch itself. I've seen it happen, and apparently it happened to Armalite during the SASS trials, even though they have a better gas system for suppressor use on their SASS rifles.

Yes, you can't get around the high price for the Armalite AR10 LPK(-), but Armalite has very good parts.

LRRPF52

[warped]

Yeah the three strikes of the AR10 and derivatives, good thing Colt listened, that is why the 901 runs so well and why they guard it so vehemently.

[MrSurgicalPrecision]

Since we're talking about budget parts I'll throw my two cents in. I have not seen a better trigger that was even close in price than the Mega Tactical single stage. It's adjustable for creep and overtravel and only runs $86. It uses a stock hammer and hammer spring, but I replace the hammer spring with a reduced power unit from JP. I prefer a crisp single stage trigger myself being more of a bolt action shooter.

http://http://www.rainierarms.com/?p...roduct_id=1852

[LRRPF52]

Mad Max,

I just looked at that trigger on Rainier's site ( I order from them often ), and it was hard to tell what allows that trigger to adjust for over-travel and creep. Is it like a JP with 2 set screws? If so, I think I might try one for my next running gun. That Mega trigger combined with the DPMS LPK(-) sounds like the most affordable LPK plus match trigger right now, but you will need a hammer in addition to those two items. Thanks for the heads up on those.

I use 2-stage for precision guns, and single stage for carbines that will usually be shot from standing or moving positions. I didn't realize that Mega's trigger was adjustable. When I install the JP's, I polish the sear surfaces of the trigger and hammer using my well-seasoned degree in hand-held, high-speed, rotary tool applications... Just make sure you don't take too much material off your trigger bar in the rear when you fit it to the selector...I had a friend that did it once...

LRRPF52

[warped]

Geez man, get a decent buffer for your work bench!

Use the proper polishing compound and you can also really polish the tail of the bolt and nothing tends to stick afterward.

I also started using Frog Lube and it really is great, plus you can eat it, it smells like those wintergreen candies we got as kids.

[Greyghost1]

Norsk,
Back to your original post on 24" bull Grendel by J&T. I have shot one that another person this forum built. It was very accurate, definitely sub 1 moa. For the uses you described J&T could be a good value. I have a 20" J&T H bar barrel. I set it up for an all around rifle range, hunting, and fending off zombies. It has stock trigger, 6 pos stock, and low power optics. I still get groups well under 1/2" at 50 yards when I am consistent in my hold. The current set up isn't really optimized for bench work. In my case the trigger, stock, and optics are more the limiting factor on accuracy. My home range is limited to 50 yards so long range bench shooting wasn't my goal. My complete upper kit was the same price as a satern barrel by itself. For a lot of shooters J&T is a good starting point. I have had mine since 2007 and after around 1000 rounds I have been very happy. No regrets with J&T.
Good Luck,
Jeff

[MrSurgicalPrecision]

Mad Max,

I just looked at that trigger on Rainier's site ( I order from them often ), and it was hard to tell what allows that trigger to adjust for over-travel and creep. Is it like a JP with 2 set screws? If so, I think I might try one for my next running gun. That Mega trigger combined with the DPMS LPK(-) sounds like the most affordable LPK plus match trigger right now, but you will need a hammer in addition to those two items. Thanks for the heads up on those.

I use 2-stage for precision guns, and single stage for carbines that will usually be shot from standing or moving positions. I didn't realize that Mega's trigger was adjustable. When I install the JP's, I polish the sear surfaces of the trigger and hammer using my well-seasoned degree in hand-held, high-speed, rotary tool applications... Just make sure you don't take too much material off your trigger bar in the rear when you fit it to the selector...I had a friend that did it once...

LRRPF52

It has a set screw fore and aft that screws down against the bottom of the receiver and adjusts it's position. The front screw adjusts overtravel, the rear adjusts the amount of creep. I've got mine set to the minimum that will still allow it to function properly and it's far better than the Chip McCormick drop in my buddy just put in his Grendel. But like I said I don't like 2 stage triggers.

I can probably email you the installation instructions which shows it better than I can explain it if you're interested.

EDIT: I forgot about this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81mpvsDGHSg