My 18" X-Caliber Barrel - An ongoing review and discussion

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  • Okie_Poke
    Bloodstained
    • Oct 2023
    • 31

    My 18" X-Caliber Barrel - An ongoing review and discussion

    I first built my Grendel 8-9 years ago. This rifle was the first AR I had built, so everything was a learning experience. And politcs being what they were at the time (the more things change . . .), rifle parts were somewhat in short supply. You could find things, but you coulnd't necessarily find exactly what you wanted. Anyway, I originally wanted an 18" barrel, but I settled for a 16" lightweight stainless fluted barrel purchased directly from Alexander Arms. The original idea behind the gun was to be a deer, hog, and coyote hunting rifle, and that barrel fit that task perhaps better than I knew it did at the time.

    I learned a ton about reloading and about ARs in general from that barrel/rifle. I'll hazard a guess to say I've shot that rifle more over the last 8 years than I've shot any other rifle I own. But, intended uses and preferences change. I hunt hogs a lot less than I thought I might, and I often find myself reaching more for a bolt action when headed to hunt deer. These days, I'm much more likely to shoot my Grendel in one of the various matches my local gun club hosts for ARs each month. For the last couple of years, I shot my lightweight AA barrel in those matches. It did fine, and I learned a lot and got better as a shooter, but reloading for and shooting in those matches left me wanting a different barrel.

    The main reason was that I came to believe that AA barrel had very tight/short throat. I do not have the tools, skills, or expertise to say whether it was or was not within SAAMI specifications, but when I measured 123 grain Hornady match bullets (BTHP or later ELD-Ms), those bullets were jammed into the lands as measured with my Hornady tool at about the COAL listed in Hornady's manual and at which I've seen Hornady factory ammo to be loaded to. I never had trouble with Hornady factory ammo in that barrel, and I always loaded my handloads a bit under that to ensure no issues there, but it's something that made me a bit nervous/curious. Because I had to seat the bullet so deep in the case to stay off the lands, I didn't have any room to play with the COAL.

    The second reason I wanted a new barrel was because accuracy out of the AA barrel was just okay. In general, I considered that barrel to be a 1.5" inch barrel on average and over time. I shot some groups smaller than that, of course, but I also shot larger groups; so, in general that rifle was an average 1.5 MOA rifle. And, that skinny barrel sure did heat up when shooting a 20-round string in competition. Just fine for hunting, and not bad overall for a gas gun in my experience. But . . . what if a custom barrel could do better?

    So, last fall I began researching AR Grendel barrels for the first time since I built the rifle. A couple of posts on this forum were incredibly helpful, even though I didn't ultimately listen. I learned of X-Caliber from one of the members of my local gun club who shoots at a very high level, and I ultimately went with them. I was debating between X-Caliber and a Criterion chambered by Precsions Firearms, and I let X-Caliber's early December 20% off sale and slightly shorter advertised lead time decide the issue. I ordered a stainless 18" SPR contour barrel with a rifle-length gas system; 1:8 twist with 5R rifling. I know that a 20" heavy barrel wold fit the match application better, but I just can't give up on the idea of this being a dual purpose rifle, which is part of the reason I stuck with the Grendel instead of going to a 6mm.

    The barrel was delivered in early January, a few weeks ahead of schedule. One of the first things I did was measure for COAL using the same lot of ELD-Ms I had last loaded for the old AA barrel. The new X-Caliber barrel gained 0.020" maximum COAL, which means I can seat those bullets out magazine length and not be into the rifling. Check one. Check two was shooting some factory Hornady ammo through it to make sure everything was working correctly and to tune the gas block. The first four 5-shot groups out of the gun probably averaged 1.25" and all were under 1.5." Since I was playing with the gas system and otherwise just breaking the barrel in, I didn't get too hung up over groups. The rifle works and didn't just vomit all over the target with factory ammo the first time out.

    Check three came on something I wasn't looking for but think may actually be kinda important now. When I went to measure the fired cases with a headspace comparator to adjust my reloading dies to the new barrel, I learned that they only stretched about .003" - .004" over unfired factory brass. Cases fired in my old AA barrel were stretching 0.010" in a single firing. Whether this translates into longer case life or not remains to be seen, but I would think it might. In any event, I view gettng a tighter chamber with a longer throat to be a plus.

    Next to initial load devlopment. My old AA barrel shot basically every 123 grain Hornady bullet at about 2450 fps into about 1.5" to about the same point of aim when loaded over 31 grains of CFE 223. As a result, I have a fair amount of CFE 223 sitting around. So, I decided to load up several ladders with 123 ELD-Ms and that powder for initial load devlopment. I didn't even try alternative bullets or powdes on this first trip to the range. The results were underwhelming. Only one of my 5-shot groups was under 1.5" at 100 yards. The largest was over 2.5." Yikes! I know the barrel likes the ELD-M bullet okay because the factory ammo shot decent, so for now I'm blaming the powder. Which is a bummer becasue CFE 223 was my go-to powder in the old barrel and I have several pounds of it. (I also use for loading 223, but I don't shoot 223 very often).

    Back to the drawing board. Second effort was to test 123 Lapua Scenars and 123 ELD-Ms with Benchmark and AR-COMP powders. One 10-shot ladder string, in .3 grain powder increments, for each bullet-powder combo, shot over a chronograph. The Benchmark-ELDM combo put 10 rounds within just ove an inch at 100 yards when there was over 150 fps in velocity spread between the top of the ladder and the bottom. The Benchmark-Scenar ladder measued about 1.2, whereas both AR-COMP ladders measured right at 1.5" for 10 shots. So, Benchmark is showing some promise. Unfortunately, Benchmark is topping out at about 2400 fps with the 123s. AR-COMP got me up to 2500 fps, but it's pretty hard to find rght now and very expensive when one does.

    After range trip #2, I loaded up a few 5-shot ladders of 123 ELDMs and Benchmark with seveal powder charges near the top-end of published data. I also loaded some 5-shot ladders of Scenars with AR-COMP to test again as well becasue the velocity was great and I wanted to see how they shot when all shots in the group had the same powder charge. The goal here is to find a match load I can use this season, at least until I get some other powders and bullets tested. Unfortunately, the first match was this past Sunday and I hadn't had a chance to do my testing yet. So, I just loaded up a bunch of ammo using 27 grains of Benchmark and 123 ELD-Ms, and shot the match with those.

    The match is called an "AR Tactical" match, but there's not much "tactical" about it. It's a short range, 300 yard match shot slow-fire prone. Target is an MR-63 with a 2.85" X-ring and 5.85" 10-ring. For equipment, you can use a field style bipod and rear bag without ears, and scopes can go up to 16 power. I use a magpul bipod, basic can-style rear bag from Midway, and a Vortex Viper HST 4-16x44. There was a fair bit of wind (10-20), and it was fishtailing all afternoon. Wind was predominantly from the southwest but blew everywhere from straigth out of the west to from the southeast. I shot a 577-16X, which is about as well as I've shot in that match. I had five 8s on the day; most of them were wind changes I missed, but there were a couple I can't explain. Winner shot a 587-21X, also with a Grendel. I've attached screenshots from my shotmarker targets.

    So far, I'm generall pleased with the new barrel, though the verdict is still out until I complete load devlopment. I'm cautiously optimistic I'll find be able to find a good load with decent velocity. I plan to update this as I continue to shoot and learn the new barrel.
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    Last edited by Okie_Poke; 03-12-2024, 12:14 AM.
  • grayfox
    Chieftain
    • Jan 2017
    • 4306

    #2
    The accuracy node for an 18" barrel is different from those of a 16" barrel.
    You might not like to hear but I'll bet that you would find a more accurate node for those 123's around 2455 fps. You might push that 2455 up a bit and still stay under 1", but that's a trial/error thing only you can do with your own barrel. The theory says 2455 is where you should shoot for.
    I would say that CFE can do this, as it has done it for me in many of the 120 class, 120 Nosler, 120 pro hunter, 123 eldm/sst, 120 tgk, 120 gold dot etc.
    And AR comp if you have it. Xbr also but have to be a little more careful in workups.
    I'm assuming from your post that you have a chrony.
    And as a footnote, accuracy for a 16" barrel is more like 2410 or so.
    Now these are my theories based on an OBT setup I adapted from Chris Long. so others might well disagree.
    I've borne out these numbers with my own 16" and 18" barrels, as well as the 20-22" ones I have currently; and in other calibers and barrel lengths as well.
    "Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"

    Comment

    • Okie_Poke
      Bloodstained
      • Oct 2023
      • 31

      #3
      Originally posted by grayfox View Post
      The accuracy node for an 18" barrel is different from those of a 16" barrel.
      You might not like to hear but I'll bet that you would find a more accurate node for those 123's around 2455 fps. You might push that 2455 up a bit and still stay under 1", but that's a trial/error thing only you can do with your own barrel. The theory says 2455 is where you should shoot for.
      I would say that CFE can do this, as it has done it for me in many of the 120 class, 120 Nosler, 120 pro hunter, 123 eldm/sst, 120 tgk, 120 gold dot etc.
      And AR comp if you have it. Xbr also but have to be a little more careful in workups.
      I'm assuming from your post that you have a chrony.
      And as a footnote, accuracy for a 16" barrel is more like 2410 or so.
      Now these are my theories based on an OBT setup I adapted from Chris Long. so others might well disagree.
      I've borne out these numbers with my own 16" and 18" barrels, as well as the 20-22" ones I have currently; and in other calibers and barrel lengths as well.
      Thank you for your input. I'll be just fine if I find an accuracy load anywhere north of 2450 velocity wise. I knew I wouldn't likely see a dramatic increase in velocity going from 16" to 18," but I would like to be at or over 2450 fps. CFE does get there, but so far accuracy with it has been abysmal in my very limited testing with this barrel. I do want to test it again at some point, but right now it's down the list.

      I do have a chronograph. I recently obtained the new Garmin Xero, so I even have a chronograph I trust now.

      I'm not well versed in "OBT." I knew enough to think that mean optimum barrel time without googling it, but I couldn't have told you even the basics of the theory behind it or who Chris Long is. I'm reading up on it now, but I'll say up front I'm generrally skeptical of any magic process or formula for load devlopment. Still, I'm hardly an expert, and I won't discount your experience and will keep your 2455 fps in mind as I do testing. That sounds as resonable a place as any to expect decent accuracy. Thanks again for chiming in.

      Edit to add: describing OBT as a "magic" process was perhaps a bit aggressive seeing now that Mr. Long is a radio engineer of some sort and is trying to bring scientific principles to bear on the question of load development. That doesn't really change my skepticism, but I did't mean any offense that my using "magic" in a derogatory manner may have implied.
      Last edited by Okie_Poke; 03-12-2024, 02:11 AM.

      Comment

      • Lemonaid
        Warrior
        • Feb 2019
        • 992

        #4
        Something odd I have observed doing a initial test of a new 5.56 upper. I tested a variety of weights and kinds of bullets, all with a medium charge of a few powders I have a good store of. Barrel twist was 1-7 and none of the bullets came close to the lands at mag length. The groups were pretty good with 50, 52, 55 grain bullets, O.K. with 69 grain but horrible with 75 and 77 grain. Like 4 inch plus groups horrible. The best were very close to 1 inch 10 shot groups. The next range trip I tested some Hornady 55fmjbt bullets and the Hornady 52 grain match with a different powder. This gun hates those 55fmj but love the 52 match. I find it strange that Sierra 77 TMK would produce 4 inch groups but Sierra 50, 55TMK and Hornady 52 would do so well with out load development. So to boil this down, it might be a good idea test a wide variety of bullets first to exclude ones that will be a struggle to get accuracy with.

        Comment

        • grayfox
          Chieftain
          • Jan 2017
          • 4306

          #5
          I, too, get the feeling that some barrels don't like certain bullets, or some barrels don't like certain powders... cannot put hard evidence against it, but often switching out one of those components suddenly a hard-to-shoot-barrel comes much easier, accuracy wise.
          No worries about "aggressive or offensive" sounding, Okie, I've got thick skin and actually what works for me I'm fine staying with... unless there's some good sound reasoning against it.
          He also developed a "working formula" that I took and tweaked/incorporated into an excel sheet, I use this as a primary guide to finding an MV for the bullet/rifle I'm working on. I can't measure microseconds and I can't see the longitudinal waves, but I can measure powder grains, and MV...
          "Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"

          Comment

          • Okie_Poke
            Bloodstained
            • Oct 2023
            • 31

            #6
            That has been my experience as well. Barrels are weird. I've seen them just not like particular powders or particular bullets. Sometimes that can be overcome with shome fiddling, but anymore when it happens I just move on because load development doesn't have to be hard.

            I do plan on testing several bullets and powders, as time and resources allow. Lever is on my list of powders to acquire and try, and I have some Shooters World powders that might work (though I've read mixed reviews). I'd love to try 8208 xbr, but I'm not sure I've ever even seen a can of that stuff in person. I'm really bummed that CFE behaved the way it did because I can usually find that powder and it gives good velocity. With AR COMP being practically unobtanium right now, I'm hoping LVR is the ticket. Benchmark is working, I just feel like I'm giving up quite a bit of velocity with it and 123 grain bullets.

            Comment

            • LRRPF52
              Super Moderator
              • Sep 2014
              • 8612

              #7
              I kinda went down the same path, starting with an AA 16” basic ER Shaw barrel and bolt combo ordered from Midway in 2009. I didn’t bed it, and dropped it into an old prototype-looking quick-change upper from MGI that was a little sketchy with how it locked up using 2 levers and no barrel nut. When I installed it into a normal upper, it shot even better, but still wasn’t bedded. The best group I shot with it was with Precision Firearms 123gr Silver Scenar into .792” at 100yds, averaging 2452fps 15ft from the muzzle.



              I wanted a lighter barrel, so I got on the forum group buy we did here in 2013-2014, and got an 18” Lilja. It has the Wasp profile with .650” diameter under the handguard, steps up to the shoulder, .750” gas journal, .740” to the muzzle. Shot bug hole 3rd groups out of the gate, and ragged hole 10rd groups with 123gr A-MAX on 31.2gr CFE223. That became my workhorse from 2014-2017. I also got a 22” bull fluted from Lilja, but I haven’t shot it much at all. Also got a 16” Lilja Wasp that is extremely accurate and precise for such a lightweight AR-15. It regularly would shoot .5” to .8” groups no matter what you feed it.



              I got more interested in a 12” Grendel concept in 2017, and got two of the Faxon group buy barrels and Monster logo bolts here through the forum, then built 2 little blasters with them. I’ve primarily been shooting the 12” Grendel since 2017, but I almost always take the 17.6” Lilja along with it.



              LaRue also sent me an 18” Stealth 2.0, which is just a fun rifle to shoot with that Tranquilo brake. It doesn’t move at all to me. The reticle just sits on-target.

              The most precise Grendel I’ve ever shot though was a Bartlein 20” billet upper made by Precision Firearms. It kept sending factory 123gr SMKs from PF into the same hole at 100yds. I won’t even say how many because nobody would believe it. A customer sent it back to PF saying it wouldn’t shoot. I sent pics of the groups and offered to buy it if he no longer wanted it, but he asked that it be sent back pronto.

              If you’re chasing tight groups, 8208XBR and AR Comp have proven themselves to deliver extreme accuracy with this and other cartridges, but competitors snatch them up and rightly so.

              I personally am looking for solid hits on steel plates at distance, and have been more than pleased with CFE223 for that under 123gr A-MAX primarily. Last week, I dropped one of my old 123gr A-MAX hand loads into the 17.6” Grendel and first-round connected on an 18” steel plate at 600yds in strong left-right winds. My reticle was 1.5 mils to the left of the plate, and it center-punched it.

              There isn’t a practical difference between 2400fps and 2450fps as far as downrange performance is concerned. Even 100fps doesn’t seem to make much of a difference. Shooting the 12” vs 18” is slicing hairs really. I can show you in a program what the differences are, but from shooter’s perspective, I don’t notice much. Another great target bullet is the 107gr SMK, or the new 105gr Blitzking.
              NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

              CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

              6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

              www.AR15buildbox.com

              Comment

              • Deputy819
                Unwashed
                • Feb 2024
                • 3

                #8
                I’ll be following this one. I, too, purchased an 18” barrel (AR-15 HBAR) from them back in December and am currently working up loads for it. Shoots factory stuff @ 1.5 moa at 100 yards and a little better with my hand loads using 27.1gr Benchmark and the Speer 120gr Gold Dot. I’ve got A TON of 8208 XBR, but for whatever reason Benchmark seems to be the powder this barrel prefers as it’s consistently more accurate with it.
                Here’s a pic of a 5-shot group at 100 yards that the rifle/barrel will repeat all day long…..sometimes smaller depending on the nut behind the trigger. 😀
                I’m currently working on a load using the Sierra 120gr Pro Hunter that looks to be very promising as well.
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                • Okie_Poke
                  Bloodstained
                  • Oct 2023
                  • 31

                  #9
                  Thank you for sharing. I haven't had a chance to get back to the range and test everything I've got loaded up yet. Maybe I can do that on Saturday. There is actually anothe "match" at my club on Saturday that is a "steel plate challenge" from 100 meters to 500 meters. It's informal and fun to shoot because the only scoring is hit or miss. I'm thinkig of shooting that, although it will again be without a worked-up load. Time permitting, I'll do some load testing after that match and report back.

                  Comment

                  • Okie_Poke
                    Bloodstained
                    • Oct 2023
                    • 31

                    #10
                    I got to shoot part of a match this past weekend. I say "part" because I only had time to shoot 2 of the 3 rounds because of Easter family commitments and the number of shooters who shot the match on Saturday. The match consisted of 3 rounds of 20 shots each. First round was "short range" and slow fire: 5 shots each at 100 meters, 150 meters, 200 meters, and 300 meters. The second round was a "speed" round shooting the same course of fire but in reverse order and with a 60-second time limit. The third round, which I did not have time to complete on Saturday is 5 shots each at 200 meters, 300 meters, 400 meters, and 500 meters. Targets are 8-10" steel plates, depending on the distance. It's a "fun" match and not a real difficult match, though the 400 and 500 meter targets can get interesting (especially when it's windy).

                    The rifle did well enough in the match. I used factory Hornady Black 123 ELDMs since I'm still working on load development. I should have cleaned both short-range rounds; the reason I didn't was all on me and not the rifle or the ammo. In the first, slow-fire round I used the wrong hold for a couple of shots at 300 and dropped some shots I sholdn't have. On the speed round, I got in a hurry on the 200 yard plate and slipped one off the letft edge. I ended up tied for 5th on the slow-fire and in 2nd on the speed round. I'm annoyed I didn't clean the slow-fire, but it is what it is. A mental lapse did me in.

                    Once I realized I wasn't going to have time to wait around to shoot the "long" range round of the match, I decided to go shoot my hand load test-rounds over on another range at the club and see how everything shot. Things did not go well. They went so poorly, in fact, that I almost didn't post this because it's kind of embarrassing. But, in the interest of educating and being educated, I decided to go ahead and share.

                    Benchmark and 123 ELD-Ms; 5 shots per charge @ 100 yards
                    Load # Group size Avg. Vel. SD ES
                    19 2.50" 2390 20.2 48.6
                    20 1.81" 2427 8.9 27.0
                    21 2.29 2449 9.0 26.1
                    AR-COMP and 123 Scenars; 5 shots per charge @ 100 yards
                    Load # Group size Avg. Vel. SD ES
                    A 1.20" 2482 9.7 28.6
                    B 2.00" 2505 5.6 14.8
                    C 3.10 2535 13.4 40.2
                    For reference on the velocity numbers, factory Hornady Black averaged 2454 with an SD of 10.4 and an ES of 32.0. All velocities measured with Garmin Xero. I didn't shoot the factory ammo for group; I measured the velocity while shooting sighters at the match.

                    Also, more random info, but Load 19 is the same recipe I loaded up blindly to shoot the 300 yard prone match on which I reported in my OP.

                    Something seems really off to me. I'm really surprised to see this poor and erratic level of accuracy. I don't recall the last time I had this much trouble loading for a rifle. This shooting was done from a bipod, on a bench, with a rear bag. I don't claim to be the greatest shot in the world, but I don't usually shoot this bad.

                    As of right now, I'm planning to load 10 or 20 rounds of Load 20, go back to the range, and shoot them and an equal number of Hornady Black factory at 100 yards using a front rest, rear bag, and the best fundamentals I can muster. If the factory ammo shoots well and my hand loads don't, then I'll at least know I need to trouble-shoot my handloading procedure, tools, or components. If they both suck, then I think I'm going to disassemble the upper and see if something seems wrong, and then put it back together slowly and carefully. I'm not sure what it could be, so if you have suggestions I'm open to them.

                    To be clear, I'm not blaming or bashing on the barrel. I want it to shoot and think there must be something esle going on.

                    Comment

                    • LRRPF52
                      Super Moderator
                      • Sep 2014
                      • 8612

                      #11
                      I would just order a barrel from Precision Firearms or Lilja with a known SAAMI chamber and not look back.

                      After thousands upon thousands of rounds through my lightweight Lilja 17.6” Grendel, it still shoots like it did the 1st day I grouped it, and it’s boringly-easy to make 1st-round hits with on 2 MOA plates from 600-800yds in 7mph or less full value winds.

                      I’ve seen a lot of issues and complaints about them on Sniper’s Hide, ranging from over-sized bores to lack of freebore, incorrect threads, and other basic barrel-making mistakes. Sorry I didn’t catch that about you using an X-Calibur pipe.
                      NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                      CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                      6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                      www.AR15buildbox.com

                      Comment

                      • Okie_Poke
                        Bloodstained
                        • Oct 2023
                        • 31

                        #12
                        Originally posted by LRRPF52 View Post
                        I would just order a barrel from Precision Firearms or Lilja with a known SAAMI chamber and not look back.

                        After thousands upon thousands of rounds through my lightweight Lilja 17.6” Grendel, it still shoots like it did the 1st day I grouped it, and it’s boringly-easy to make 1st-round hits with on 2 MOA plates from 600-800yds in 7mph or less full value winds.

                        I’ve seen a lot of issues and complaints about them on Sniper’s Hide, ranging from over-sized bores to lack of freebore, incorrect threads, and other basic barrel-making mistakes. Sorry I didn’t catch that about you using an X-Calibur pipe.
                        I hear you. I'm not ready to write this barrel off yet, particularly until I'm satisfied that I've eliminated things I can control as the source of the problem. But I am a little a bit frustrated.

                        At the time I ordered the barrel, I also ordered a Rubber City Armory bolt from them to headspace to the barrel (required for their accuracy guarantee). And the caliber selection chart on their website specifically says the 6.5 Grendel will be a SAAMI chamber. I don't have a go/no-go gauge for 6.5 Grendel to double-check, but I have no reason to think this barrel is out of SAAMI spec the way the ammo loads and brass behaves/measures after firing. X-caliber answered seveal questions from me pre-sale in a timely manner, and I expect they'll respond promptly to me again if I reach out to them about the barrel. But before I do that, I want to try everything I know to try.

                        I need to shoot some factory ammo through it again specifically for groups to use as a control to confirm whether it's my handloads or the rifle. Then I'll go from there.

                        In a somewhat related vein, I think I have seen in some of your other posts that you mention some basic accurizing steps you take when building an uppper. Can you point me to a thread or resource that would discuss those in more detail?

                        Comment

                        • LRRPF52
                          Super Moderator
                          • Sep 2014
                          • 8612

                          #13
                          For an accuracy/precision build:

                          Barrel from Bartlein, Krieger, Lilja, Criterion turned by a shop that knows what they are doing with a signed-off on reamer.

                          Upper receiver face must be square and true to the bore. I have a tool that checks and can be used to square the face of uneven anodizing, which is less and less of a thing nowadays from reputable receiver makers. Easy enough to get a billet upper from someone who cares about their reputation.

                          Barrel extension should fit really tight in the upper, preferably press-fit or thermo-fit. I bed them with thread retaining compound as well before I torque the nut on, so I let the compound set first overnight. This way the extension will not move rotationally inside the upper and will stay indexed to the feed ramps.

                          Before I do that, I de-edge, blend, and polish the feed ramps to look like smooth, shiny paths for the meplats and shoulders to ride, vs sharp corners that dent in your cases.



                          Gas block is best press-fit with a hydraulic press or drill press, or pounded on carefully with insulation on the barrel and block to prevent peening. Hard to align the ports properly if you don’t have a jig and press though, so next best thing is clamp-on or tight-fit with bedding compound (make sure not to get it in the port). You don’t want a rattle-trap gas block.

                          I bed the gas tubes as well, but LaRue and KAC have better sealing methods for their improved gas systems. LaRue Stealth 2.0 comes with a ferrule that seals the gas tube in the block to prevent leakage. Gas tube is fit to ensure no clipping or binding against the carrier key with the upper inverted with a stripped carrier to simulate cartridge stack pressure/lift up on the BCG.

                          Muzzle device gets very minimal torque with Rocksett so it doesn’t induce binding forces on the muzzle.

                          When it comes time to torque the barrel nut, I use higher torque for lighter weight barrels, and lower torque for heavy profiles based on feel.

                          I’m looking for harmonic dampening, not resonance. The different torque values will equalize or disturb harmonic resonance. The more damp the barrel and upper are to each other, the better.

                          Scope mount torque values are all equal, as are fasteners.

                          Good trigger, LaRue MBT-2S, Geissele SSA-E

                          I like billet sets but my 17.6” was built on forged receivers, M4 upper without Forward Assist.
                          Last edited by LRRPF52; 04-05-2024, 04:35 PM.
                          NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                          CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                          6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                          www.AR15buildbox.com

                          Comment

                          • Okie_Poke
                            Bloodstained
                            • Oct 2023
                            • 31

                            #14
                            Thanks for this, LRRPF52.

                            Comment

                            • Okie_Poke
                              Bloodstained
                              • Oct 2023
                              • 31

                              #15
                              I have something of an update here. After my last post, I cleaned the rifle and then disassembled the upper to check things over. The barrel was on tight and took a dowel rod to remove. Once the grease was cleaned off the extension and the receiver, the barrel would not press fit back into the upper dry. With grease it slipped in okay, but dry it got stuck about half way in. I did not observe any play in the barrel extension to receiver match up. No doubt if I shimmed it and bedded it the thing would be tighter, but I didn't want to glue it in there until I know the barrel is worth gluing in there.

                              Next, I was quite a bit more intentional about torquing down the barrel nut than I was initially. Mostly, I wanted to make sure the gas tube wasn't going to bind, but I ended up playing with the nut for quite a while and adding some shims to get the torque right and get the gas tube slot to center up. Then I spent quite a bit more time playing with the gas block and gas tube to make sure it was on as perfectly as I could get it. I also turned the receiver over and checked to make sure the gas tube was interactng smoothly with the gas key on a stripped bcg. Ultimately, I have more confidence in how I put the upper together the second time than I did the first. I don't think I did anything wrong the first time, but I was excited to get that new barrel on the first time and didn't "play" with it as much to make sure everything was as good as I could get it. I don't know if the rifle is assembled better this second time or not, but I'm not second guessing my assembly now.

                              One thing I did notice in this excercise was that the front mlok screw from my bipod mount had left a shiny spot on the bottom of the barrel. I thought I had sanded those screws down where they wouldn't touch the barrel, but I apparently didn't take them down far enough for when the bipod is loaded. I'm either going to have to take them down further or get a larger ID handguard, which I frankly should have done in the first place. I removed the bipod mount and shot the re-assembled rifle off a Caldwell rock front rest with a protecktor rear bag.

                              This past Sunday, I went back to the range to shoot Hornady Factory Black 123 ELDM for group against my handloads with Benchmark and the same bullet. I used Load 19 from above again. Two, five-shot groups of each factory ammo and Load 19. It was about 60 degrees, but there was a fair amount of wind from the NW at about 7-15 and gusting at times up to 20. Not ideal shooting weather, but it's the time I had and I was only shooting at 100 yards.
                              Load/Group Group Size Avg. Velocity ES
                              Factory 1 1.19 2459 31.7
                              Factory 2 1.31 2449 18.8
                              Load 19-1 1.60 2362 21.7
                              Load 19-2 2.00 2373 33.8
                              A few observations: First, this is generally better/more consistent than my last outing, though it's not ideal by any stretch of the imagination and I haven't really shot enough to demonstrate anything conclusive. Second, factory ammo is shooting better than my handloads, which is infuriating but useful information. Below is a picture of the groups and you can see the factory ammo groups (top row) were generally flat and string horizontal, whereas the handloads (bottom row) were more scatter-shot. Third, each of these 5-shot groups contained 3 shots under 0.75"; a couple have 3 shots under 0.50." And I know from shooting the groups that three in a row would stick together, so I have no doubt this barrel would pass X-Caliber's "accuracy guarantee" test of a 3-shot group under MOA. I knew this beforehand, but such guarantees (whoever is providing them) are something but they aren't really much.

                              IMG_6419.jpg

                              The factory ammo is shooting about like I would have expected factory ammo to shoot. I'm not really upset with it, though of course I'd like it to shoot better still. I am, however, upset with my handloads. This "Load 19" with Benchmark is averaging 5-shot groups just under 2 MOA over several outings. That's obviously not what I'm after.

                              In terms of next steps, I think I'm going to switch powders up again and try something new/different. I picked up some Leverevolution recently and have some SW to try. I also have some ideas on different things about my reloadng process I could try and tweak and test, but I think changing powder is the most likely "big knob" I can turn right now. I could also try changing bullets, but the ELDMs are easy to come by and I won't tolerate the factory ammo being better than my handloads with the same bullet. I will keep you posted on my progress. When I started this thread I thought it was going to be a "look at how awesome my new barrel is" thread, not a trouble-shooting adventure. Oh well.
                              Last edited by Okie_Poke; 04-24-2024, 02:26 AM.

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