Another barrel length conversation.

[Huntchic]

I currently have built a few Grendel's for others and 2 for myself. One I have is an AR 12" pistol the Other is an 18" AR rifle. Love them both. I have a couple AR 5.56's around and am thinking of converting one into another Grendel. Basically just going to get a barrel and have everything else on hand. Im stuck on deciding the length barrel. Having a 12" and an 18" trying to decide on what length for this one. 20" or 16".
I have a new never fired 18" PSA barrel on hand I could use but I am considering getting a 16" Faxon Gunner for light weight general use and extra Deer hunting Grendel for when family comes to hunt. The Idea of the 20" would be for a extra deer rifle also but more for distance, paper or Coyote type shooting. I can get a decent deal on a faxon 20" heavy fluted barrel. Not much difference really getting an 20" when i already have a 18" is there? For those of you that have Multiple length Grendel's Which do you think is a better fit with already having the 12" and 20
I'm kind of leaning towards a 16" because a gunner barrel is lighter and a 16" can have a regular stock vs shorter barrel using a Brace or SBR. However maybe i should just put the 18" PSA i have on it and be happy. My 12" is basically a under 200 yard deer rifle that could double as a CQB if needed. My 18" is basically for deer and other hunting. so im torn between doing a bit longer range Grendel or a more general purpose one. I'm open to thoughts and suggestion's.

[VASCAR2]

Overall length and handling qualities can be dictated by the barrel profile, hand guard and muzzle device.


Here is a picture of my 20” Shilen DCM Match profile 6.5 Grendel next to my Faxon manufactured 18” Monster logo barrel ALG hand guard. The Shilen has a plain recessed crown and is basically the same overall length as my 18” Monster logo. Intended use determines the components I choose for my build. My 20” is mostly shot at distance off the bench or prone but not to heavy to shoot off hand.





My 18” Monster 6.5 Grendel next to my 16” Monster logo 6.5 Grendel. Just for a visual comparison.




Here is a chart that shows velocity change with different barrel lengths. In my experience this chart gives a respectable indication of velocities in the different length 6.5 Grendel.




My Son in Law has a 22” 6.5 Grendel AR-15 and it still handles very similar to a 20” AR-15 in balance and portability. A Friend has a Alexander Arms 24” 6.5 Grendel AR-15 and it is to unwieldily for me to shoot off hand and has the least flexibility in different roles. If I were looking for an inexpensive 20” 6.5 Grendel barrel I would give serious thought to Rexus Outfitters. The Rexus 20” barrel linked below weighs 3 ounces more than the 18” Rexus which has a similar profile as my 18”. I like all my 6.5 Grendel AR-15’s but the 18” hits the sweet spot for an AR-15 than can do a lot of things.

https://rexusoutfitters.com/rexus-65-grendel-20-ar15-barrel/

[grayfox]

My 2 best-liked grrrs, for me, are an 18" Rainier, but the best one is a lilja barrel, 20".. I mention the mfrs only b/c - you know I've said it before - good barrels of any length are better than hit or miss. That faxon most times is a decent barrel, and I know you've had success with them. I do like the 20" b/c it gets 50-65 fps better than an 18", node for node. Not just comparing max MV to max MV since that is pretty much useless IMO.

I had a 16", couple of them I think, and just was not satisfied with MV going out, plus the muzzle blast is 4" closer as cp to the 20.
My 20" is 9 lb but very maneuverable, I don't hike around a lot but it's not too heavy and yet blast is out there enough to bother me less at the shot. It has a pretty Big-X scope on it for my eyes, that probably adds some weight that others may opt for a lighter scope. Most of my shooting will be stationary so lugging it to that spot is what counts. I'm ditching a 10.5 lb for this 20" just because of that.

For 120 class bullets the 20" nodes at around 2500-2510, sometimes 2490. The 18 is more like 2445.

Edit to add, if you want to do some coyotes that 12" with the Varm 90's ought to be a good setup... I found some 90 Varm's - blems, from nosler a while back, their sharper ogive/point gives 'em a .340 BC as stated by Nosler, better than the standby on here of the speer 90 tnt (0.281 IIRC). So you have the "shorter"... go long!

[VASCAR2]

I’m an old retired guy and I was curious so I compiled these barrel weights for length plus some basic chronograph results for comparison sake.




Rexus 20” 2 lb 4 oz
Rexus 18” 2 lb 1.5 oz
Rexus 16” 1 lb 13 oz
Rexus 14.5” 1 lb 13 oz
Faxon Gunner 1 lb 8.48 oz

Some chronograph results for comparison

123 Grain SST Hornady

12” 2277

16" 2430

18" 2493

20" 2511

24" 2583

[LRRPF52]

Suppressed or no-suppressed?

If suppressed, I like the 8.5”, 10.5”, and 12”.

No suppressed, then 14.5” to 18” lightweight.

I don’t see a lot of perceivable differences between the 12”, 16”, or 18” Grendels in the scope, even though I can show the minutiae on paper exactly how many inches drop different there is.

The 12” shoots really flat with 90-110gr as well, so projectile selection seems more important than barrel length.

[Huntchic]

Thanks guys for your valuable input as always you guys have been there n done that more than I. I’ve carried a Winchester pre 64 model 70 and Bulgara both in 06 with long barrels for years so
any Grendel seems light and manageable. I like my 18” best for its ballistics and it’s about 1/2 lb more than my 12” due to the scopes. The 18” is well balanced too. I do like the 12” really well too. Maneuverable compact and I shoot it well. I may think on it a bit more but from what y’all are saying I’m starting to lean now more towards the 20” maybe. lol. I’ve got a few bolt guns that are ballistically better than the 6.5 if I really need to reach out with more authority so I’ll have to think on it more and see after hunting is over for the year.

[rickt300]

Well I just ordered this barrel for my next toy, will build a 22 ARC. Hoping it shoots as good as any of the Grendel and 6AR barrels I already have.

https://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Faxon-Firearms-AR-15-16-Gunner-22-ARC-Rifle-Lengt-p/fax-15b22a7r16ngq-5r-np3.htm

[Huntchic]

I don’t have any plans to go suppressed currently. I’m not using any muzzle device on my 18” and running a liner comp on the 12”. I like the idea of extra 50ish fps the 20” would give over the 18”. My thinking was because I really like my 12” and 18” perhaps going 16” would kinda split the difference for a do all in Grendel.

[LRRPF52]

Thanks guys for your valuable input as always you guys have been there n done that more than I. I’ve carried a Winchester pre 64 model 70 and Bulgara both in 06 with long barrels for years so
any Grendel seems light and manageable. I like my 18” best for its ballistics and it’s about 1/2 lb more than my 12” due to the scopes. The 18” is well balanced too. I do like the 12” really well too. Maneuverable compact and I shoot it well. I may think on it a bit more but from what y’all are saying I’m starting to lean now more towards the 20” maybe. lol. I’ve got a few bolt guns that are ballistically better than the 6.5 if I really need to reach out with more authority so I’ll have to think on it more and see after hunting is over for the year.

I was raised on a Pre-64 Mod 70 in .270 Winchester, as well as .257 Bob, .30-06, and I had some very forward-thinking Boy Scout leaders who had 6.5 Rem Mag and .264 Win Mag. You will never catch me with any of those types of rifles for anything other than answering the requests of my youngest son. “Dad, let’s take that one next time!”

The .270 sure hits steel hard though. I would have loved something like 6.5 Grendel when I was a kid, especially in an AR-15.

We’re spoiled nowadays.

[A5Blaster Number 2]

I don’t have any plans to go suppressed currently. I’m not using any muzzle device on my 18” and running a liner comp on the 12”. I like the idea of extra 50ish fps the 20” would give over the 18”. My thinking was because I really like my 12” and 18” perhaps going 16” would kinda split the difference for a do all in Grendel.

I have had all manners of barrels lengths in grendel. From 24 inch all the way down to 10 inch.

I have a 12 inch and a 16 in ar grendel at the moment and the 16 inch is my daily driver and first grab hunting gun. Gives me that weight balance to bullet speed I need for deer inside 300 yards and pig/yotes inside 600 yards, while not being so heavy I can't pack it way back into public lands to hunt.

The 16 serves as my defensive weapon as well.

I went back to a rifle length stock over useing carbine type stocks. It balances better setup this way.

My thoughts is if it's not going to be a primary hunting or defense weapon and is going to see very min usage, then go 24 inch and get all the speed you can get for target playing.

But if you think it could end up taking over 50% or more of your daily usage, then go 16 inch with mid length gas.

A light weight rifle can still feel heavy if all it's weight is hanging off the front but a heavy rifle can still feel light if it's well balanced.

My 16 inch is wearing the faxon barrel your talking about. Has been a great barrel, very accurate. Loves any 120 grain bullet I put in it over ar-comp.

Hope this helps.

[Huntchic]

I did some searching and looked at lilja barrels. Wholly crap Gray fox ! Im sure they are an excellent Barrel But for the current price it doesn't even come with Air conditioning 4 wheel drive or Heated seats !! I get the you get what you pay for but im pretty happy with every faxon barrel ive bought for on AR platforms. If im going for best accuracy and distance its a bolt gun every time with quality barrel.
LRRPF52, except for the weight I got to say my model 70's are my favorite rifles to use hunting. Things just go flop when they see me with one of them, I admit were spoiled compared to years ago. Just something happy inside when I pack out with model 70.
VASCAR2 i really appreciate the data input its really helpful seeing the differences. I really do greatly appreciate everyone's input.
For me the Grendel fills my close in to 250 rifle and has replaced my 300 blk guns as well as most of my 5.56 its just a harder hitting and better range cartridge. If im just out and about my 18" is good for any game mid to small but If i im going somewhere i would likely to be shooting past 300yds at something then I'm probably going to grab n carry a bolt gun anyway so going 16" would likely be the better choice for a third Grendel the other purpose is for when i take a girlfriend or nephew when they are in town to have something for them to use. If i did a 20" its going to be about at least pound heavier than my 18" because of barrel and more X scope. 16" would be about half pound lighter than my 18". The advantage of doing a 20 was only for the extra velocity. The 16" would be bit more maneuverable and lighter than my 18" but ballistics would be better than my 12" and could kind of be more of a do all. I've been back and forth a good bit on this one probably more than any AR I've built before. Im just not really sure adding an 20" would really do much for me and the 16" would be more of a benefit.
Maybe I should just do another 18" but with a more power variable scope on it. I've got a 6x18 in my cabinet waiting for a rifle to ride on.

[grayfox]

I know what you say about the Lilja... but it is not the most $$$ barrel one can get, lol!

For my 18 I went with Rainier, they have a match series, they are $260 for any of the lengths, a nicer price point but still a really good pipe... don't know if they have the 20" or not.

Faxons have done well for you, I'm not knocking them. But any time someone can afford it, go for the best barrel you can get, it is, after all, the piece that translates your intentions to the bullet!

Have fun whatever the length you pick.

[Huntchic]

I agree about barrels. Its not so much i cant afford more its just on any caliber in AR i tend to run middle of the road prices. Ill look into the Rainier and others have suggested them also. I've just had really good luck so far with Faxon in all different calibers and builds so its hard not to go with them for the price and weight. Been a number of good Barrel suggestions in different threads too. Yourself and other "experienced" Grendel Guru's i respect for you guys have been there done that more than i with different Grendel guns so why i ask yall for input. I do truly get about quality Barrels and having been around the world and many different weapons in Marines and after doing a little government work ive seen some guns that i could never afford that are unhuman accurate. I actually did some 22lr offhand shooting years ago and still have my Winchester model 52 with a 30x scope and an Anschutz i picked up just because. Both will shoot so consistent that it can be hard to tell if hole in paper is all shots or just 1 shot. But again for an AR platform and hunting stuff I've found I've been pretty happy going mid road and with Faxon big plus is they are light for length which matters for me when i have to carry it hiking and not just going to the range. Ive got 2 PSA barrels in my parts that have never been fired. Can honestly say ive not shot a PSA 6.5 Grendel barrel so cant if they shoot under moa or not.

[Huntchic]

Just got back a response from Rainer (Scott). They don't offer a 20" barrel in Grendel. Sad.

[tdbru]

for a light weight upper for hunting, and because I didn't want to lose too much MV I went with the faxon 20" gunner. that along with careful selection of all the parts I used ended up with a 7.5lb setup including scope and mount. I also have a 24" HB upper with 6.5-20 scope for strictly range work as it's very heavy, as you could imagine. But more MV too. I tend to like longer barrels, though, not only for the extra MV but also because it does reduce muzzle blast noise a little bit and moves it further from my already hearing damaged ears. I don't consider the 7.5 lb. setup weight as too heavy for general purpose and hunting use. The 24" HB is of course nicer for the bench.

All the advice about barrel quality is legit. I could likely get tighter groups with a wider variety of loads with better barrels. But with load development I manage to get acceptable grouping for what I do with each upper. Kind of depends if you're needing better than 1/2 MOA for F-Class or if 1.25 MOA will work adequately for deer out to 250 yards or so.

Best of luck with your decisions on the new upper build.

-tdbru