Questions on Cerakote finishes

[Marko/IL]

I have been reading up on Cerakote finishes. Brownells has "air dried" finishes available. I assume specialty coatings companies use a heat set application.
Is the professionally applied finish superior? Since Cerakote is a ceramic I would think the heat set coating would be more durable
I have an air brush and if the air dried finish is just as good, I would be tempted to try my hand at at a woodland camo, (mossy oak type or real tree type).
What experiences do you guys have with this finish?

[LRRPF52]

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?6154-Grendel-20-quot-GDMR-w-Snakeskin-Cerakote

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?1386-Templar-Customs-Digital-Desert-Cerakote

The H Series is the bake-on Cerakote. The C Series is for high temp applications, but can be used for optics, polymers, fiberglass, and items that you don't want to apply heat to:

[adamjp]

There seems to be a great deal of myth surrounding Cerakote. When it's all said and done, it is a paint. It is reasonably durable, no more than any other high adhesion hard shell 2K or 3K paint system. In fact, the Spies Hecker stuff on modern Mercedes cars is harder to scratch!

Applying either H or C series with an airbrush with a 0.5mm tip will work fine. Most complete bolt action rifles seem to need about 40ml of product mixed up for the metalwork.

I have no idea what an AR would need as I haven't seen one for a few years and I defintiely won't be Cerakoting one ever.

[Spurrious]

The oven cured finish is reported to be far more abrasion resistant than the air dry coating. The air dry is far more heat resistant....600 vs 1200 degrees. The air dry and oven dry Cerakote finishes are very different. So no the air dry is not just as good a firearm finish as the oven cured.....unless maybe the finish is going on a safe queen.

[bwaites]

There seems to be a great deal of myth surrounding Cerakote. When it's all said and done, it is a paint. It is reasonably durable, no more than any other high adhesion hard shell 2K or 3K paint system. In fact, the Spies Hecker stuff on modern Mercedes cars is harder to scratch!

Applying either H or C series with an airbrush with a 0.5mm tip will work fine. Most complete bolt action rifles seem to need about 40ml of product mixed up for the metalwork.

I have no idea what an AR would need as I haven't seen one for a few years and I defintiely won't be Cerakoting one ever.

adam,

Oven cured Cerakote is many times more resistant to abrasion than regular paints, Duracoat, or bluing. I've tested it on several items, and its a whole different ballgame than any finish I've seen used on guns otherwise. If Mercedes car paint is tougher, then that's some tough stuff.

Testing has shown that in abrasion testing it will stand up to 6000 cycles using ASTM D4060, as opposed to 740 for Gunkote, 690 for Parkerizing, 640 for Duracoat, and 500 for bluing. The closest competitor was Black Oxide coatings, which lasted 3333 cycles. This test is performed using a 1 kilo weight placed on an abrasion wheel and then passing the wheel back and forth over the surface until the coating shows the steel substrate. The wheels are cleaned every 500 cycles per the protocol.

[Tedward]

adam,

Oven cured Cerakote is many times more resistant to abrasion than regular paints, Duracoat, or bluing. I've tested it on several items, and its a whole different ballgame than any finish I've seen used on guns otherwise. If Mercedes car paint is tougher, then that's some tough stuff.

Testing has shown that in abrasion testing it will stand up to 6000 cycles using ASTM D4060, as opposed to 740 for Gunkote, 690 for Parkerizing, 640 for Duracoat, and 500 for bluing. The closest competitor was Black Oxide coatings, which lasted 3333 cycles. This test is performed using a 1 kilo weight placed on an abrasion wheel and then passing the wheel back and forth over the surface until the coating shows the steel substrate. The wheels are cleaned every 500 cycles per the protocol.

I had read all the abrasion testing and do agree with your statistics above. Also Cerakote goes on suppper thin so it is good for tight tolorance areas. I also determined if you have a 2 lb weight with abrasion on your firearm then you might need to go that route. On surfaces like the slide of a pistol, holsters where your pistol is in and out of multiple times a day or a bolt carrier (Not recommended) the abrasion test is good.

I just Duracoated my AR last weekend (2 days ago). I did some pre-paint tests a month ago and that stuff is tuff. I want to see how durable it was and it is hard. I had to sand some off with 220 grid sandpaper and all it did was scratch the surface for a great bond on re-coating it.

Anyhow for the money and if you ever want to change the color using DuraCoat is an inexpensive way to do it yourself and it looks great.

Going shooting with my new Grendel set up this weekend... CAN'T wait....

[LRRPF52]

Cerakote isn't really a paint. It's a microscopic ceramic mud basically in solution, that is mixed with a hardener before application. It feels like no other color application product that I have used, and clearly outdoes Alumihyde & Duracoat. I have tested it against Alumihyde on magazines and rifles, and there really is no comparison.

[adamjp]

I've not used Alumihyde, but I agree Cerakote H is superior to Duracoat.

As for the microscopic ceramic (mud is redundant as it's just a state of being), where do you think the pigments and solids in ordinary paint come from?

The single largest advantage for Cerakote on firearms is that it achieves a good colour effect with a very thin coat. This makes it a great choice for parts that are designed to fit up with small tolerances (like the inner surfaces of a firearm). Most auto paints go on thin, but they need several layers to achieve their solid effect. This makes them unsuitable for tight tolerances (but the outside of a car is hardly 'tight'). They also have poor lubrication properties, something that is a significant advantage for Cerakote. The modern car paints are intended to be chip resistant, demonstrate self-healing properties for minor scufs and scratches, and highly resistant to all sorts of crap that falls from the sky (like duck poo which is highly acidic, and water repellant). They would make a great product for the outside of a firearm (except for the fact they are almost all a gloss mixture).

For external application there are several products that are equivalent to Cerakote, some that are superior.
For internal application there are some that are equal or better, many that are far behind.
For a single application, I am unable to access anything that equals or surpasses Cerakote.

[LRRPF52]

I've been wondering where the pigment components for Cerakote come from myself. It's interesting stuff.

[Marko/IL]

I attended a gun show here in Nnorthern Illinois. There I met some guys from JTB TACTICAL www.jtbtactical.com they are an authorized dealer for Duracoat and Cerrocoat. Main differences is Duracoat is an epoxy, and cerrocoat is a heat set ceramic.
Brownells has air dried cerrocoat. This however is a form of a durable air dried paint not as durable as the heat set type.
the best is heat set cured at 300 degrees. (not impossible in the home oven) Cerrocoat slightly edges out Duracoat in abrasion resistance. I need to know if there are any pitfalls using an airbrush doing it myself. I have some experience in camo/stencil/air brush painting.
Back in the 80's (before anyone was coating anything) I stencil painted my competition shotgun for the Soldier of Fortune 3 gun shoot in Las Vegas. I believe it was the first desert/woodland combo paint job ever seen, judging by the comments and compliments I received.

[Marko/IL]

I had another observation...

I have seen the Duracoat patterns. I have been paying attention to other custom paint jobs at local gun shows. I am bemused that people living in a summer green/black/brown and fall green/gold/brown environment are emulating pure desert camo patterns. Duracoat needs a "Mossy Oak" type summer and fall camo pattern.
Maybe I just need a good air brush artist that can duplicate it! Does MOSSY OAK Cerrocoat guns?!!

[KentuckyBuddha]

From what I have seen, it isn't a minor difference more abrasion resistance between the two. Granted this is obviously produced by the cerekote folk...but it looks pretty fair to me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksj-XJzVQik


I know without fear of contradiction that even if you have duracoat professionally done it will come off a knife the first time you baton it through wood as I have evidence of this right here. : ) I have not yet tried cerekote on knives yet to compare however. Hope that helps.