AR-47 Gren

[calshipbuilder]

I've heard people talk about needing an "AR-12.5" to fully realize the Grendel's capabilities. I feel like this would be possible with some existing products and a custom bolt. Take an AR-47 lower, run some nice magpul AK mags, then a WSSM barrel extension/bolt setup. We'd need someone to machine a wssm bolt to fit, but this looks do-able. What say the Horde?

[explorecaves]

I vaguely remember a post on facebook about someone looking into making an AK-Grendel....

[KentuckyBuddha]

I distinctly remember an AR lower with a 45 deg front on it such that one could use proper ak mags.

[calshipbuilder]

The lower exists: http://www.ar-47.com

And these guys can probably source the bolt carrier and extension: http://www.dtechuppers.com/ar-15-wss...receivers.html

No clue on the bolt itself

[LRRPF52]

The AR-47 was a funded program. Several companies were involved with it, but it fizzled out. The AK mag well and magazine isn't a solution for fully realizing Grendel capabilities.

Getting out and shooting is the only way to fully realize Grendel capabilities.

[mongoosesnipe]

The Grendel is does not have the same taper as the 7.62x39mm and as such does not require the curvature of an AK mag so the AR-47 lower is not really needed. Using a WSSM bolt/extension would certainly be stronger but at that point why not just use a 6.5 WSSM wildcat and call it a super Grendel

Even using the WSSM you will still be limited to loading to mag length

[KentuckyBuddha]

My guess as to why you would not go ahead and make a super grendel is you would have to make/procure yet more mags. : )

[Drifter]

Getting out and shooting is the only way to fully realize Grendel capabilities.

That is golden... It seems that so many people form an opinion and / or offer "wisdom" while having minimal actual experience shooting the Grendel.

[calshipbuilder]

Getting out and shooting is the only way to fully realize Grendel capabilities.

I think I'll go realize my M24 this morning instead.

[mongoosesnipe]

That is golden... It seems that so many people form an opinion and / or offer "wisdom" while having minimal actual experience shooting the Grendel.

Oh come on just because the Grendel is capable of effectively exceeding 800 yard and shown to be viable out to 1200 yards and beyond without being pushed is not good enough, the typical arm chair commando regularly engages targets in excess of 1 mile and needs a carbine/assult/DMR/sniper/BJ rifle that can shoot a mouse through the eye at 1 mile plus while weighing in under 8 lbs (the wheels on the chair have a weight I it you know) with at least 20 rounds in the mag to fight of the wave attacks of mice at close range...JK

[calshipbuilder]

Whats the point to this forum if not to discuss optimization of the AR platform?

Having leading forum members call me out as a poseur for (1) bringing up optimization ideas and (2) assuming I don't shoot much, just sucks.

I do want a sub 8# AR that can make reliable hits at extended range - why wouldn't you?

Enough whining on my end, time to launch some M118lr at 800 yard steel.

[cory]

Oh come on just because the Grendel is capable of effectively exceeding 800 yard and shown to be viable out to 1200 yards and beyond without being pushed is not good enough, the typical arm chair commando regularly engages targets in excess of 1 mile and needs a carbine/assult/DMR/sniper/BJ rifle that can shoot a mouse through the eye at 1 mile plus while weighing in under 8 lbs (the wheels on the chair have a weight I it you know) with at least 20 rounds in the mag to fight of the wave attacks of mice at close range...JK

I completely agree with Calshipbuilder why are we not looking for ways to improve it.

You can have the rifle you mentioned there and as an engineer I'm still going to be looking for a way to improve it. Cut another few ounces, extend the range, etc... And this goes for every engineer on here, it's just the way our brains function. It's a problem I know, but I've had worse problems. HAHA

All that being said when the Military finally replaces the 5.56 it's almost a certainty that the AR15 will be replaced as well. Whether it's with an AR15/10 hybrid, another design, or if it's an energy based weapon (caseless projectiles) is yet to be determined.

Right now one of the greatest strengths of the Grendel is that it operates well within the AR15 platform. Once AR15s are no longer the rage, that's going to be a mute point other than the fact that it'll be the AR15 platform is what's holding the Grendel back from realizing its full potential.

Why do we not try and get ahead of the curve and determine what platform would best suit the Grendel?

All of History's Industry leaders, the most successful men in history were so because they stayed ahead of the curve.

[stanc]

That is golden... It seems that so many people form an opinion and / or offer "wisdom" while having minimal actual experience shooting the Grendel.

Hey! I greatly resemble that remark!

[stanc]

Whats the point to this forum if not to discuss optimization of the AR platform?

Nothing wrong with attempting to think outside the box. But, you have to be prepared for criticism. For example, your idea of using an AR-47 and AK mags simply cannot produce an "AR-12.5" because the mags don't allow the cartridge OAL to be increased, and the curvature of the mags is incompatible with 6.5 Grendel case taper. So, nice try, but no cigar for you. Keep thinking, though.

[stanc]

Right now one of the greatest strengths of the Grendel is that it operates well within the AR15 platform. Once AR15s are no longer the rage, that's going to be a mute point other than the fact that it'll be the AR15 platform is what's holding the Grendel back from realizing its full potential.

Why do we not try and get ahead of the curve and determine what platform would best suit the Grendel?

Okay. What platform do you suggest?