Steve Gash article in Shooting Times

[JASmith]

The September 2014 issue just arrived in our mailbox. In this issue was an excellent review of Alexander Arms' 6.5 Grendel Hunter by Steve Gash.

As frequently happens, Steve's article gives a lot more than just a simple review of a particular model. In this case, he included commentary on across the board accuracy with a variety of bullets and powders along with a triple handful of his favorite loads. The hunting results were interesting. There was even a mention of the 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook.

[BluntForceTrauma]

Good news. Fortier mentioned over on AR15.com that he's got an article on 65G steel-case coming out soon in Shotgun News. Bill A. noted that others are working on articles, as well.

[bwaites]

The New AR-15 mag has a great article on the new AA Hunter by Jason Teague, then another article on AA Grendel ammunition by Tom Beckstrand. The Grendel is getting its second wind, and really taking off with the writers in the gun mags!

[JASmith]

I think folks are beginning to realize this little cartridge works as well on game as the .270 Winchester, is as gentle on the shoulder as the .243 Winchester, and shoots flat enough to count! Al that on top producing outstanding accuracy in the AR-15 and other frames.

[81police]

recoils close to a 223, hits more like a 243

[keystone183]

I think folks are beginning to realize this little cartridge works as well on game as the .270 Winchester,

Count me as someone who loves the grendel.....but lets not get carried away here.....

[JASmith]

recoils close to a 223, hits more like a 243

Yes, it is a light recoil, but I have run the numbers. On paper, it is kind of between the 100 gr PowerPoint/Corelokt in the .243 and the 75gr Varmint loads for the same weight of rifle. That is not much more than the heavy bullets in the .223 Rem. And yes, the recoil feels more like that of the .223 Rem in the rifles i use for these three calibers.

Yes, the muzzle energies are close to each other. The .243 Win, however, can't sling 120 - 140 gr bullets so results on game will be more reliable. These weights are also the most commonly used bullet weights in the .270 Winchester. The difference is in muzzle velocity which effects the trajectory and the distance over which the bullet reliably expands.

[tackdriver]

I have recently introduced my uncle to a Grendel, it took over a year to convince him! He said he was gonna use it on coyotes and that he already had a .308 and .270 for deer. I bet him $50 he ends up deer hunting with it this fall. I can see no use to shoot the bigger rifles!

[JASmith]

Tackdriver, has your uncle read through Vol 2 of the 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook?

That read through and some serious plinking with the deer loads might ease his concerns about whether the cartridge is up to the task.

Cheers!

[sneaky one]

I agree , keystone- the compare to the .270 was a bit much. Maybe Joe hit a bad keystroke-.

I proof read the ST rag item. Looks good. Look at the energy levels that they state= barely above the 5.56.

That's the main reason that I went lighter in wt., , yet lead free-- in 6.5 Grr--- it sheds no wt.!

I am close to the performance level on game- using Gmx pills, in 95 grn.,, as to compare to the -in between -30-30-+-.308---- it's all thats needed for whtails.

Lead based pills truly are best in 100-123 grn., in the Grendel. I just prefer lead free. By going lead free, you can drop 20-40 grns of wt. Full penetration is awesome too.

We may have a few new wt.'s to be announced later- if it pans out as planned,,on the Gmx idea.
Much more to follow upon this lead free - bullets.

It's going to be an issue in 50 states before you know it= bald eagles. Hawks, duh, the condor, it will never end .

Back to the Grr article, nicely done. It is the best midsize option out there, with a many uses, far beyond the 6.8 SPC's reach.

It's a true duh- moment for our ill congress to see the cost savings for future engagements.- War planes, soldiers on foot- anyone in theater can use the same ammo....

[JASmith]

I agree , keystone- the compare to the .270 was a bit much. Maybe Joe hit a bad keystroke-...

No bad keystroke fellas!

The key item is bullet weight. Muzzle and impact velocity make very little difference as long as the impact velocity is in the recommended range for the bullet. For most lead-core bullets, that range is 2,000 to 3,000 fps. Since both the .270 and the Grendel have pretty close to the same range of bullet weights that can impact within this velocity at reasonable hunting distances, their effect on game is very similar.

The main difference is the .270 has a flatter trajectory and a longer range to the threshold bullet velocity but one pays the price of enduring heavier felt recoil.

Go to this page and read the linked papers for details: Ideal Bullet Weight

[Y85]

That link is a great reference. (Now, for my stupid question.). Why can lead-free bullets achieve the same effectiveness at 60% of the weight of lead-based billets? Is it due to weight retention? (That doesn't seem logical.). Since energy transmission involves both mass and velocity, I don't see how the much lighter all copper projectiles would be as effective. Is a 90-100g TSX really as effective as a 123-125g SST/Partition on whitetails (let's assume Midwestern deer - 175-250 lbs)?

[JASmith]

The papers in the subsequent links help explain a little bit but the differences in permanent wound channel sizes between the bullet design classes was empirically derived.

The methodology looks at the size (area) of the permanent wound channel compared to the animal's weight. The required relationship was essentially established by archeologists working to understand why mesolithic (5,000 10,000 years ago) hunter's arrowheads had particular sizes.

Traditional lead core bullets tend to expand quickly but lose weight starting right after impact resulting in less penetration than might otherwise be the case. The copper alloys in lead-free bullets tend to be very ductile allowing them to retain most or all of their initial weight. They also tend not to expand as much which allows them to penetrate rather deeply compared to lead-core expanding bullets. Logically, the wound channel must first be deep enough, with the actual diameter also an important but secondary consideration.

[JASmith]

...Is a 90-100g TSX really as effective as a 123-125g SST/Partition on whitetails (let's assume Midwestern deer - 175-250 lbs)?

Their performance in wet paper and gelatin suggests that the equivalence is correct between the 90-100gr all-copper expanding bullet and the 123-125 grain partition.

We would be looking at more like a 150 grain SST to get the same equivalence to the 90-100 gr all-copper bullet.

[sneaky one]

Y85, I have shot a few deer using 95-100 GmX pills, that I lathed down from a 120 Gr. The results were Amazing! Awesome performance!

Lately, we tried the same bullet in a few different wts. More to follow, upon the results. The 105 was tested last fall, in GA. The really lite one was tried in April this yr.

Yes,, less wt. in an alloy -equals a std. lead core- heavier pill. I have plenty of shots on game that prove my first idea..- then backed up by Jasmith.


I- we will explain more upon on this later. Plenty of bullet trials to take place. Yet, yes- the coppers can replicate the heavier sst's.

Been there, done that.