Side charging

[Variable]

Yeah, I know the spring pressure would be the same, but thought that there might be a difference in leverage.

The T-handle has to be grasped overhand, with thumb and forefinger, or first two fingers.

Hmm, I had already assumed you had tried cheating... possibly not. I'm guessing you use a bipod and shoot at the bench? If so, put the butt of the rifle against your chest, while pulling rearward on the charging handle with both hands. You can have one on each lobe of the charging handle. That's what I was thinking when I suggested using a PRI big latch. Pretend you're a feudal Brit cocking a crossbow on a castle wall, and the charging handle is a string. One hand on each side and draw directly rearward towards your chest.....

[noone]

I am always interested in new modifications to firearms. I try to figure out what problems the new designs will fix, and what problems they designs will cause.

Having more openings, slots, or no ejection port cover on the receiver makes it easier for junk to enter into the mechanism and cause jams. Having a reciprocating bolt handle makes the handle prone to catching on things and cause a short stroke.
Having anything other than the standard charging system makes it harder to acquire replacement parts if the need arises.

Having a left hand, non reciprocating handle would make it easier to cycle the bolt while keeping your right hand on the handgrip and close to the controls. Having a right hand reciprocating handle makes initial charging of the weapon easier for left handed people.

I'm sure there are other problems and benefits that I haven't thought of. For now, I haven't seen enough problems with the original design to make me want to get a different charging system.

[StoneTower]

"Having more openings, slots, or no ejection port cover on the receiver makes it easier for junk to enter into the mechanism and cause jams. Having a reciprocating bolt handle makes the handle prone to catching on things and cause a short stroke."

My Benelli SBE (which has a reciprocating bolt handle as do most automatic shotguns) never seems to have any problems and I use that shotgun in some of the worst conditions that a you can find unless you are a Navy Seal. I believe that the reciprocating charging handle catching on something and causing s short stroke is a myth for most applications. If you put the right side of the rifle up against something and the ejection port is partially covered, the empty case can get jammed between the ejection port and the bolt too. I have this problem with my brass catcher on my AR10 from time to time.

If it was not for the extra weight, I would have one as I believe that it would make loading the rifle silently while hunting easier. You could control the forward pressure on the bolt carrier until the bolt goes into battery where now you have to rely on the buffer spring to strip the first round off the magazine and then use the forward assist to close the bolt if you ease the charging handle down.

[stanc]

Hmm, I had already assumed you had tried cheating... possibly not.

Not. I was standing at the counter, looking at a brand new carbine. There didn't seem to be any way to try alternative methods of pulling back the T-handle.

I'm guessing you use a bipod and shoot at the bench?

Considering the tremors, I would most likely have to shoot from a bipod or bench rest.

If so, put the butt of the rifle against your chest, while pulling rearward on the charging handle with both hands. You can have one on each lobe of the charging handle. That's what I was thinking when I suggested using a PRI big latch. Pretend you're a feudal Brit cocking a crossbow on a castle wall, and the charging handle is a string. One hand on each side and draw directly rearward towards your chest.....

Understood. That'd be easier if that darned forward assist wasn't so close to where the fingers of my right hand have to be. That's one thing I always hated about the design, but the only way around that is to get a custom upper assembly made with a Les Baer "slick side" receiver.

Last night I watched a youtube video with a guy showing the operation of a BCM Gunfighter charging handle. That appeared to make cocking somewhat easier. And there was another video of a very large handle (don't recall the make/model) that might be excellent for your crossbow method, although it really protruded quite a ways to the right of the receiver.

[stanc]

I believe that the reciprocating charging handle catching on something and causing s short stroke is a myth...

I agree. Perhaps the people who say that are too young to realize that rifles with reciprocating bolt handles have been used quite successfully in major combat. Some examples: M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, SKS45, and of course, the AK47.

I've never heard of any complaints about the handle of those weapons getting caught on something, and they were used in conditions far worse than shooting from a bench.

[LRRPF52]

I've never had any issues with reciprocating charge handles in field conditions. I personally like the Stg44 and the Belgian FAL handles a lot. The Garand, M1 Carbine, AK, M14, FNC, SKS, SVD, and Mini-14 have always operated without any interference with equipment, stance, etc. Most of those actions are very exposed to debris entering them though, so the AR has one of the most closed and protected receiver and charge handle designs for use in the field. Even the AK's loose assembly allows large dirt particles into the trigger mechanism, while the bolt assemblies of the Garand-type and SKS actions are totally exposed to the elements.

I'm not a huge fan of the AR's charge handle location, but moving it usually involves making another opening into the action that will bring large dirt or sand with it. With some of the different charge handle options available out there for the AR, charging it is a lot more conducive to good gun-handling skills using your non-firing hand while keeping your firing hand firmly in position on the grip.

The PRI Gas Buster and VLTOR/BCM Gunfighter are the top two that I prefer.

[stanc]

...put the butt of the rifle against your chest, while pulling rearward on the charging handle with both hands. You can have one on each lobe of the charging handle. Pretend you're a feudal Brit cocking a crossbow on a castle wall, and the charging handle is a string. One hand on each side and draw directly rearward towards your chest.....

Did some more searching, and found a charging handle that looks perfect for that technique:

[warped]

Yep, Marty must have had you in mind!

[stanc]

I'm not a huge fan of the AR's charge handle location, but moving it usually involves making another opening into the action that will bring large dirt or sand with it. With some of the different charge handle options available out there for the AR, charging it is a lot more conducive to good gun-handling skills using your non-firing hand while keeping your firing hand firmly in position on the grip.

The PRI Gas Buster and VLTOR/BCM Gunfighter are the top two that I prefer.

Reasons?

[MrSurgicalPrecision]

I would not want one unless it was non reciprocating and left side

I may make one of my own using a charging handle from a FAL and the billet upper I have

A company called AB Arms is working up a prototype left side charge non-reciprocating upper receiver that is also nickle boron coated inside and out. It has a huge advantage over other left side chargers in that it will use a standard style carrier/gas key. I shot with the owner of the company a few weeks ago in West Virginia and he's going to send me a sample to T&E once he has a solid working prototype.

[z06man]

Understood. That'd be easier if that darned forward assist wasn't so close to where the fingers of my right hand have to be. That's one thing I always hated about the design, but the only way around that is to get a custom upper assembly made with a Les Baer "slick side" receiver.

The VLTOR MUR, DPMS Sportical and Mega Billet all are smooth sided and come without a forward assist. The Mega has a side charge option also.
The Megas and VLTOR can be seen on this page, http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sho...=&pagenumber=3.

[stanc]

The VLTOR MUR, DPMS Sportical and Mega Billet all are smooth sided and come without a forward assist.

Yes. I was incomplete in what I wrote. The Les Baer upper is the only one with a standard ejection port cover and an integral case deflector.

I must shoot left-handed, so I wouldn't trust the DPMS Sportical and Mega Billet uppers because they have no case deflector. That they lack an ejection port cover is also undesirable.

And I ruled out the VLTOR MUR due to the sharp edges on its case deflector.

[StoneTower]

Yes. I was incomplete in what I wrote. The Les Baer upper is the only one with a standard ejection port cover and an integral case deflector.

I must shoot left-handed, so I wouldn't trust the DPMS Sportical and Mega Billet uppers because they have no case deflector. That they lack an ejection port cover is also undesirable.

And I ruled out the VLTOR MUR due to the sharp edges on its case deflector.

What do you do with your rifle that you require an ejection port cover? If you drop your rifle in the mud while you are hunting you might get dirt in the magazine well, but I try not to do that My Benelli has no shuch cover, but I never seem to get mud in it either.

[stanc]

What do you do with your rifle that you require an ejection port cover?

You seem to have a mistaken impression. I didn't say that I really need an ejection port cover.

[Rhino-1]

What do you do with your rifle that you require an ejection port cover? If you drop your rifle in the mud while you are hunting you might get dirt in the magazine well, but I try not to do that My Benelli has no shuch cover, but I never seem to get mud in it either.

Yes, but a shotgun also has looser tolerances and does
Not typically have the fcg under the chamber area.