Howa mini-action in grendel to be released in mid-2016

[Matt @ LSI]

Are the barreled actions released for sale yet or are yall waiting to release them at the same time as the grendel rifle yall are building.

Either way one of these will be mine lol maybe even two

we dont have any barreled actions at this time. we used the barreled actions to drop into stock to make them a complete rifle. all we receive from Howa is barreled actions. they will be here within 6 months.

[Matt @ LSI]

Im having the same thoughts too A5BLASTER, a HB for range work and a lightweight for walking around. And a bunch of different stocks they can be thrown in depending upon the application.

Hey Matt the list shows only the Blued actions, will the Stainless be released at the same time ?

stainless is not an option for the mini action at this time and also we do not have plans to make a stainless barreled action. we have even pulled stainless barreled action from our entire line-up of Howa barreled actions and are now cerakoting them in-house.

[Matt @ LSI]

what i have listed part number wise ius the COMEPLETE list of mini actions that we will have for 2016, if you do not see a variation on there, we do not offer it.

[Sputnik]

There are plenty of stocks for a Howa 1500 short action barreled action, who makes quality stocks for the HB mini?

[kmon]

AJP, good info. My guess was simply based on examining the bolt length comparison in their catalog. I'm a bit surprised they'd go that route, but truly scaling down the whole action is understandable.

I'm not really feeling the need to hot-rod; if I was, as you say, it's best to step up to the next cartridge class, but it would be nice to know the capability is there to at least match what the brass can handle.

If I wanted to hot-rod it in a bolt action to say 60,000psi like a lot of bolt gun rounds are chambered for skip the mini or micro actions for the Grendel and do a build on a Savage or Remington 700, Dakota will build a real sweet Grendel for enough $$$. Those actions can take the added pressure and do with their larger bolt lugs in lots of other cartridges with larger case heads. There are some that are loading the CZ actions hot but I like my gun too much to push it too far, for that in 6.5s there is already a 6.5-284 and 264 Win Mag in the safe. I will take my CZ a bit higher than the max loads for the AR but not much. Just my 2 cents

[MrDraco]

here you go!


sorry, have not updated the ROT for the grendels but it is in fact 1-8" twist and the magazines that come with the grendels are in fact 5rd's

Awesome, thanks. When Boyds start selling replacement stocks, I'll be getting the heavy barrel.

There are plenty of stocks for a Howa 1500 short action barreled action, who makes quality stocks for the HB mini?

Good question. With the mini action being so new, I don't think anyone does right now, or at least none that I can find.

[BluntForceTrauma]

I will take my CZ a bit higher than the max loads for the AR but not much.

Let me pull down some arbitrary numbers just to help focus the discussion. If we operate under the assumption that Hornady, Lapua, PPU and Nosler 6.5 Grendel BRASS — not talking about AR15 bolt — can easily handle 60,000 psi pressure rounds or whatever they shoot 6mmPPC at, what are the pros and cons of loading to, oh, 58,500 in a new Howa Mini-Action (MA)?

The expectation would be to gain 100-200 fps more velocity. (This assumes the next step up, something like the 6.5 Creedmoor, gains 350-450 fps per bullet in equal-length barrels at about 60,000 psi vs. the 65G. And feel free to question my assumptions! Let's get on the same page — this isn't ARF.com.)

Is this doable in the MA? Doable with caveats? Insane? Let's explore this from a technical perspective.

[Matt @ LSI]

There are plenty of stocks for a Howa 1500 short action barreled action, who makes quality stocks for the HB mini?

No one besides us has a stock for the Mini Action. Stock manufacturers may make you a stock if you send them your barreled action, your first born and a second mortgage.

[am4966]

Hmm, Howa MA shoot it for awhile and get you a Bartlien or Hawk Hill 22" barrel to replace the factory. Then slowly add new aftermarket parts as they come available.

6.5 TBAC Ultra 7" thing of beauty

@ Matt@LSI what is the diameter of the heavy Barrel or who's contours are you guys using? Thanks and I know I speak for the rest of the fellas it's great to have you here and hope you stay a permanently!

[LRRPF52]

Let me pull down some arbitrary numbers just to help focus the discussion. If we operate under the assumption that Hornady, Lapua, PPU and Nosler 6.5 Grendel BRASS — not talking about AR15 bolt — can easily handle 60,000 psi pressure rounds or whatever they shoot 6mmPPC at, what are the pros and cons of loading to, oh, 58,500 in a new Howa Mini-Action (MA)?

The expectation would be to gain 100-200 fps more velocity. (This assumes the next step up, something like the 6.5 Creedmoor, gains 350-450 fps per bullet in equal-length barrels at about 60,000 psi vs. the 65G. And feel free to question my assumptions! Let's get on the same page — this isn't ARF.com.)

Is this doable in the MA? Doable with caveats? Insane? Let's explore this from a technical perspective.

The thing that happens when you push the pressures in a lightweight rifle is that recoil becomes more abrupt. For me personally, I've become more of a fan of a very balanced gun that handles well, so I can spot my own hits without use of a muzzle brake, while still not having offensive muzzle blast. When you keep things tame, it is much easier to shoot the rifle repeatedly, which builds confidence and increases hit probability.

Let the BC and projectile weight do most of the work. We really don't need much speed at all for the common hunting distances. Where speed comes more into play is with long range shooting. Spit the 129gr ABLR out at 2300-2500fps and you have a great little cartridge with a lot of reach. Since it expands down to 1300fps, it will do more than most shooters would ever dream of when looking at engagement range on animals.

One other con to higher pressures is throat wear and barrel life. I personally don't want to chase a throat with seating depth as time goes on if I can prevent it.

[Matt @ LSI]

Hmm, Howa MA shoot it for awhile and get you a Bartlien or Hawk Hill 22" barrel to replace the factory. Then slowly add new aftermarket parts as they come available.

6.5 TBAC Ultra 7" thing of beauty

@ Matt@LSI what is the diameter of the heavy Barrel or who's contours are you guys using? Thanks and I know I speak for the rest of the fellas it's great to have you here and hope you stay a permanently!

we use a #6 contour for our heavy barrels. so .750" muzzle OD
and thanks! glad i can be of service!

[BluntForceTrauma]

I played with the numbers in the JBM Ballistics Calculator and here is what I got. I input for a 6.5mm 129 Nosler Accubond Long Range (0.553 BC-Litz) and I made an educated guess for a 6.5 Grendel load at 2450 fps in a 20" barrel, 200-yd zero, wind 10mph, target speed 0, all other inputs default. I then bumped it to 2600 fps — increase of 150 fps — for a hypothetical, higher-pressure bolt-action load with all other inputs the same.

300-YARD DIFFERENCES BETWEEN 2450 fps and 2600 fps
DROP = 1.3", DRIFT = 0.3", VELOCITY = 134 fps

600-YARD DIFFERENCES BETWEEN 2450 fps and 2600 fps
DROP = 12.3", DRIFT = 2.6", VELOCITY = 116 fps (yes, the gap narrowed)

Only the shooter can say whether the differences are worth it to him.

Full charts attached below. OK, I see the charts imported at very low resolution, barely readable. Anyway, you get my drift. . . .

[adamjp]

If I wanted to hot-rod it in a bolt action to say 60,000psi like a lot of bolt gun rounds are chambered for skip the mini or micro actions for the Grendel and do a build on a Savage or Remington 700, Dakota will build a real sweet Grendel for enough $$$. Those actions can take the added pressure and do with their larger bolt lugs in lots of other cartridges with larger case heads. There are some that are loading the CZ actions hot but I like my gun too much to push it too far, for that in 6.5s there is already a 6.5-284 and 264 Win Mag in the safe. I will take my CZ a bit higher than the max loads for the AR but not much. Just my 2 cents

You didn't comprehend my previous post did you.

It is not the bolt action strength that is the problem, it is the brass. Yes, you can hotrod to 60k PSI (and I'm using Lapua brass which is head and shoulders above anything made in America) but your primers will need superglue to stay in on the third reload. Either that or you can then ream the primer pocket to take a large rifle primer and get another couple of loads out of the cases.

Short version, at 60k PSI the cases stretch quickly across the base which make the primer pockets loose.

[adamjp]

Let me pull down some arbitrary numbers just to help focus the discussion. If we operate under the assumption that Hornady, Lapua, PPU and Nosler 6.5 Grendel BRASS — not talking about AR15 bolt — can easily handle 60,000 psi pressure rounds or whatever they shoot 6mmPPC at, what are the pros and cons of loading to, oh, 58,500 in a new Howa Mini-Action (MA)?

The expectation would be to gain 100-200 fps more velocity. (This assumes the next step up, something like the 6.5 Creedmoor, gains 350-450 fps per bullet in equal-length barrels at about 60,000 psi vs. the 65G. And feel free to question my assumptions! Let's get on the same page — this isn't ARF.com.)

Is this doable in the MA? Doable with caveats? Insane? Let's explore this from a technical perspective.

FFS, ignore the person who has been shooting a Grendel bolt gun for years and make it up as we go.

Grendel brass is NOT PPC brass.
Grendel chambers are not tight match chambers found in PPC.
Grendel reloading dies are not minimum disruption straightline dies found in PPC benchrest.

Grendel cases by Lapua cannot be run at 60k PSI with any expectation of even moderate life.

It has nothing to do with the action and everything to do with the brass.

[BluntForceTrauma]