Howa - Installing the DIPinc Bottom Metal

[Frontier Gear]

Guys,
I know that there has been a lot of complaints about the Boyds stock and the Howa "bottom plastics", but I wanted to share what I found when installing the DIPinc aluminum bottom metal into my Howa stock since they will start arriving shortly.

Tighten the front screw first! Then tighten the rear screw. It would also be a good idea to bed the pocket around the rear screw hole with epoxy or some kind of bedding agent.

For whatever reason, the inletting for the rear pocket is wrong. I know that is how the Howa stocks were molded, but it's not correct. I think that is why the bottom plastics are breaking. They bottom plastic is not being fully supported around the rear screw and it breaks. The DIPinc bottom metal is much stronger and can take the strain. If I tighten the rear screw first, the whole bottom metal lifts out of the stock at the front action screw. When I install and torque the front action screw first, the gun feeds and cycles perfectly.

My guess is that Boyd's was just going off of the Howa stock's measurements when they came up with their inletting as well.

[Cotay]

Guys,
I know that there has been a lot of complaints about the Boyds stock and the Howa "bottom plastics", but I wanted to share what I found when installing the DIPinc aluminum bottom metal into my Howa stock since they will start arriving shortly.

Tighten the front screw first! Then tighten the rear screw. It would also be a good idea to bed the pocket around the rear screw hole with epoxy or some kind of bedding agent.

For whatever reason, the inletting for the rear pocket is wrong. I know that is how the Howa stocks were molded, but it's not correct. I think that is why the bottom plastics are breaking. They bottom plastic is not being fully supported around the rear screw and it breaks. The DIPinc bottom metal is much stronger and can take the strain. If I tighten the rear screw first, the whole bottom metal lifts out of the stock at the front action screw. When I install and torque the front action screw first, the gun feeds and cycles perfectly.

My guess is that Boyd's was just going off of the Howa stock's measurements when they came up with their inletting as well.

Thanks! My Boyd's stock just came in for my BA #1 contour and I'm anxiously awaiting the DIPinc Bottom Metal.

[Sticks]

WOW. I've been blaming Boyds on a flaw in their milling, but it appears that LSI / Howa is the source of the issue, not Boyds.

Why the F have they not caught on to that little fact?

Yes, absolutely bed the bottom metal - front and rear.

[ricsmall]

This happens with most any bottom metal/stock combo. Any bolt gun, always snug the front screw first, then snug the rear. After that torque front to final spec then the rear. The stock should be pushed forward against the recoil lug as well to ensure proper seating.

[DIP, Inc]

Boyd's Stock Fix(at least for mine anyway)

...... For whatever reason, the inletting for the rear pocket is wrong....

Correct: We discovered this when trying to make the bottom metal. The factory HOWA stock inletting at the rear screw is misaligned and NOT parallel with the action. It is about 7 degrees off angle measuring from the OEM plastic stock rear action screw hole(and so is the rear pillar).

...... My guess is that Boyd's was just going off of the Howa stock's measurements when they came up with their inletting as well.

Exactly!.
I have one of very first Boyd's Pepper Laminates and it was machined the same as the OEM plastic stock. I removed some of the stock material just behind the trigger and leveled the inletting toward the back of the action screw hole so the front and rear screw perch are both on the same plane. My Howa Mini-Action cycles perfectly in the Boyd's stock.


The lines I drew in are exaggerated but it gives you the idea as to how I fixed mine.
Black lines are the action screws. Blue line is where the trigger guard needs to be. Yellow line is where the OEM inletting is and the Green line is the material I removed.


Now when I install the rear action screw first the guard at the front screw stays put, or if it moves at all it moves toward the action slightly rather than a 1/4" away.

Hope this all makes sense.

[Frontier Gear]

Bob,
You are the man! This is a problem that has been giving Boyds a bad name for quite a while now. Come to find out that it wasn't their issue at all. Again, thanks for the great product and the details on how we can fix it.

[grayfox]

Bob,
Would you have a measurement as to how much above the bottom-metal plane you went when you inletted up to the green line? Are we talking 1/32, 1.0-1.5mm, or what do you think...

[Doon]

WOW. I've been blaming Boyds on a flaw in their milling, but it appears that LSI / Howa is the source of the issue, not Boyds.

Why the F have they not caught on to that little fact?

Yes, absolutely bed the bottom metal - front and rear.

Yep you been sticking it to them, have beded a few Boyds stocks and never had a problem!
Was always wondering what the deal was as I find their product very good.
I have always beded my bottom metal also on different stocks to get the correct feed dimension, why wouldn't you!
Glad it has been resolved and boyds can carry on their good name.

[Sticks]

Correct: We discovered this when trying to make the bottom metal. The factory HOWA stock inletting at the rear screw is misaligned and NOT parallel with the action. It is about 7 degrees off angle measuring from the OEM plastic stock rear action screw hole(and so is the rear pillar).




Exactly!.
I have one of very first Boyd's Pepper Laminates and it was machined the same as the OEM plastic stock. I removed some of the stock material just behind the trigger and leveled the inletting toward the back of the action screw hole so the front and rear screw perch are both on the same plane. My Howa Mini-Action cycles perfectly in the Boyd's stock.


The lines I drew in are exaggerated but it gives you the idea as to how I fixed mine.
Black lines are the action screws. Blue line is where the trigger guard needs to be. Yellow line is where the OEM inletting is and the Green line is the material I removed.


Now when I install the rear action screw first the guard at the front screw stays put, or if it moves at all it moves toward the action slightly rather than a 1/4" away.

Hope this all makes sense.

Exactly the same that I had to do, including a touch at the front

Yep you been sticking it to them, have beded a few Boyds stocks and never had a problem!
Was always wondering what the deal was as I find their product very good.
I have always beded my bottom metal also on different stocks to get the correct feed dimension, why wouldn't you!
Glad it has been resolved and boyds can carry on their good name.

I am going to bed the Aluminum replacements. Bedding the plastic that is really pliable did not make sense. I thought about it, but opted to rely on the pillars that I installed. Glad I did, as there is only so much milling you can do, and only so much accuracy with a Harbor Freight drill press and hand scrapers in an apartment.

[flyrod]

If I tighten the rear screw first, the whole bottom metal lifts out of the stock at the front action screw.

I noticed this too, both with the howa stocks and the boyds. The bottom of the receiver is flat, but the plastic is not. I think they boyds stock used parallel but offset cuts; you can see the offset tool paths in the picture. So either way tightening the screws tends to bend the plastic.



We were also talking about this here:

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?15570-Fitting-Howa-Mini-1500-barreled-actions-into-after-market-stocks

My solution was to separate the functions of the fasteners and use aluminum bedding blocks. In this way the bolts hold the receiver into the stock, and the little screws hold the plastic in place (with much less load):

[DIP, Inc]

Bob,
Would you have a measurement as to how much above the bottom-metal plane you went when you inletted up to the green line? Are we talking 1/32, 1.0-1.5mm, or what do you think...

IIRC it was not much more than 0.060" to make that spot flat. I also noticed the OEM stocks piller is at the same 7 degree angle, but there is enough room in the bore of the pillar that the a action screw still threads in without issue.

Hope this helps

[HuntTXhogs]

Yep you been sticking it to them, have beded a few Boyds stocks and never had a problem!
Was always wondering what the deal was as I find their product very good.
I have always beded my bottom metal also on different stocks to get the correct feed dimension, why wouldn't you!
Glad it has been resolved and boyds can carry on their good name.

Say what?

Bedding adds surface area (builds up) - that said my Boyd’s AT One stock had too much surface area causing the mag to sit too low to allow the rounds to feed.

This thread provides info that would have helped me localize the problem

But

There was NO WAY the Boyd’s stock was good to go on the new Howa action

[Sticks]

Say what?

Bedding adds surface area (builds up) - that said my Boyd’s AT One stock had too much surface area causing the mag to sit too low to allow the rounds to feed.

This thread provides info that would have helped me localize the problem

But

There was NO WAY the Boyd’s stock was good to go on the new Howa action

By him saying "have beded a few Boyds stocks and never had a problem!" I am presuming other actions than Howa mini 1500. I however can not agree with you that there is "No Way" that their stocks are good to go. Lot of people will not bother with inletting for free floating the barrel, and get lucky with the flexible bottom plastic not splitting, and if it does, they just buy another from LSI.

[HuntTXhogs]

[DIP, Inc]

Bob,
You are the man! This is a problem that has been giving Boyds a bad name for quite a while now. Come to find out that it wasn't their issue at all. Again, thanks for the great product and the details on how we can fix it.

FG YW!


I spoke with the Boyds rep when I was at the NRA show in Dallas back in May(and last week) about everyones concerns here on the forum. They asked if I could send them my totally shock rifle so I just sent my Howa to the engineers late last week. I did explain what I did to fix the feeding issue with the Boyd's stock I had and about the rear action screw perch angle. I also let them know about the inletting height issue and they seamed genuinely concerned about both.


Thank you HuntTXhogs for the video, WELL DONE!