Black Hole Weaponry or Lothar-Walther?

[OldCannon]

Although it won't affect many Grendel shooters, polygonal rifling has been reported to "lead up" when shooting lead instead of jacketed bullets. Glock even says not to use lead bullets in their pistols.

This is true to an extent. Depends on the softness of the lead, etc, but a polygonal barrel will definitely retain lead as it travels down the barrel. You can shoot lead bullets in a Glock, but a) you void your warranty and b) You will need to de-lead your barrel after about 300-500 rounds.

[6BRshooter]

Schwag, what barrel length did you order and what timeframe were you given for delivery? I ordered one 1-2-12, it showed instock on their website, and I am still waiting on it. Vascar2 where are you located at? I am out of Albion,Il (SE Il)

[VASCAR2]

We're neighbors since I live near Allendale, I work part time in Albion.

[Crushed]

I have been looking for a barrel too, Schwag and I seem to be running in tamdem. I hope tooreal can get his pictutes posted. Polygonal rifiling looks like it should work fine but since the benchies aren't using it with their 6mm ppc ' I'm very reluctant. BUT and it's a big BUT, they have a decient price and AVAILABILITY.

[Schwag173]

6BRshooter & Crushed;

I traded e-mails with Woody of Lothar-Walther (lotharwalther@mindspring.com) and between the 2 of us we settled on these barrel specs:

* 18" LW50 stainless barrel.
* 6.5 CSS (what LW calls the Grendel)
* AR medium contour.
* Button-rifling, 1-in-8" rifling twist.
* .300" neck.
* .750" diameter at gas-block.
* Gas port drilled for mid-length tube.
* Barrel fluted in front and behind gas-block for weight reduction.
* 5/8"-24 muzzle threads, muzzle match.
* AR barrel extension & bolt.

Woody was great to deal with and told me it would be $580 and a 6-8 week delivery. I fired off my personal-check about 2 weeks ago ...

Crushed: If you go with the polygonal rifling let's compare notes regarding the results. I was very tempted to go that route but my cold feet compelled me to 'play it safe' with LW. I suspect the BHW barrel is perfectly fine.

[LRRPF52]

$580 is the price I would pay for a cut-rifled, select match, no more than .001" deviation from chamber to muzzle, heavily-lapped, fluted barrel/bolt combo. I would pay no more than $400 for a button-rifled select match barrel in the same configuration.

[Tooreal]

AR-15 built with Black Hole Weaponry barrel

Crushed, I am going to try and add a link to pictures of 1 of the rifles that i built with a Black Hole Weaponry barrel. There are also pictures of 2 targets from where I shot the rifle at sunset, it was almost dark but I wanted to see how 20 rounds of Wolf Gold bullets would shoot compared to Hornady AMax bullets at 100 yards. There are 20 shots on each target and I was adjusting the scope to the best of my ability given the fact that it was almost dark & I really could not see the targets & where I was hitting well enough to adjust the scope. So minimal adjustments were made and I was really surprised at the grouping of the Wolf bullets. I have better pictures of the rifle and targets with different custom hand loads on my laptop, but it has been messing up and basically out to lunch for the last 2 weeks or more.
Lets try 1 at a time just like LRRPF52 suggested, thank you buddy.

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[Crushed]

Schwag, I have cold feet about polygonal too. I'm going to be safe and order a 24" from AA for $320? (sumpthin like that) Your barrel sounds better than AA but on fixed income now so strechin my Chiniese Yen as far as it can go. I (and everyone else) would like to hear from you when you get it. Stay Safe Thanks.

[samalama76]

This is one of those situations where you may have to use your "gut feeling" to make this purchase. I personally feel that the amount of people using polygonal rifled barrels is very small compared to all the other more traditionally rifled barrels people are using, so you are not going to find a ton of people who have actual first hand knowledge. As far as BHW barrels are concerned, the science is there and you will find that most everyone who owns a BHW barrel has nothing but good things to say about them accuracy wise, but ultimately it is going to come down to 2 things, Faith and Trust. Faith that the science and data behind polygonal rifling is correct, and will work for your purposes, and trust, in the fact that no matter which barrel you end up buying, is the right one for you. Best of luck and don't forget to have fun with this whole process!!

[6BRshooter]

Accuracy int. uses only LW barels for their stupidly accurate rifles. As
do many Olympian shooters .

[LRRPF52]

Crushed, I am going to try and add a link to pictures of 1 of the rifles that i built with a Black Hole Weaponry barrel. There are also pictures of 2 targets from where I shot the rifle at sunset, it was almost dark but I wanted to see how 20 rounds of Wolf Gold bullets would shoot compared to Hornady AMax bullets at 100 yards. There are 20 shots on each target and I was adjusting the scope to the best of my ability given the fact that it was almost dark & I really could not see the targets & where I was hitting well enough to adjust the scope. So minimal adjustments were made and I was really surprised at the grouping of the Wolf bullets . I have better pictures of the rifle and targets with different custom hand loads on my laptop, but it has been messing up and basically out to lunch for the last 2 weeks or more.
[URL="http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/zz86/toorealforthis/26"]

Or this, [URL="http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/zz86/toorealforthis/264%20LBC-AR%20sunset%20targets]

I hope this link works...
Eric

I can't get these links to work. If you edit your post, you can direct link by using the picture icon in the tool bar. Go to photobucket, go down from the picture you want to link, and a direct link option box will be there. Click that for a copy, then paste it into the picture icon option box in the message. It's pretty easy.

[Schwag173]

Accuracy int. uses only LW barels for their stupidly accurate rifles. As
do many Olympian shooters .

So does Larue Tactical, at least for their Stealth uppers anyway. The 16" barreled Stealth I have averages 0.4" groups with my 77gr reloads. This is why I felt a little 'safer' with LW. If this new Grendel barrel disappoints me I'll be sure to let you all know.

[6BRshooter]

I have a 22" LW inbound in the next couple weeks also in 6.5 g. I have a 243 fast twist savage prefit from LW that aves 1/4 moa out to 500 yds

[kvwpwr]

I have bids for a new barrel from both Black Hole Weaponry and Lothar-Walther. The differences are that for $105 less, BHW uses 416R stainless steel, polygonal rifling and will black coat it for me. For $105 more, LW uses LW50 stainless steel, button rifling and won't black coat it. Both are saying 8 weeks for delivery.

While I lean towards Lothar-Walther, I'm interested to hear the opinions of those of you that are in the know.

Also, if it matters, BHW calls it .264 LBC and LW calls it 6.5 CSS.

Actually, LW and BHW both use button rifling and both use polygonal rifling. Button rifling is the method used to produce the rifling. Polygonal is the shape of the rifling.

The biggest difference is BHW uses a 3 groove polygonal rifling and LW uses a 5 groove(I think its five).

I have a LW on my 10/22 and its a tack driver. I'll be ordering a LW for my 6.5 shortly.

[Tooreal]

This is just Good info to have.

Kvwpwr, I hope this helps, and you may be able to get a barrel even quicker from these company that bought into their business. Here's the link to one of the companies & some barrels;
http://www.tacticalammunition.com/Ri...arrels_c95.htm

The other place is High Mountain Hunting Supply located in Moses Lake and Wenatchee.
But their website is under construction..