I'm in a pickle

[Fess]

I found a pretty good deal for a 16" lilja on six sigma that seems to fit my needs, I'm not looking to make 800yrd hunts in as much as I want the potential to be gtg at 600.

There is a BIG difference in hunting with a Grendel at 600 yards and shooting steel. I am more conservative than many here, but I don't consider the 6.5 Grendel to be a 600 yard hunting cartridge. Also be aware that most data for factory ammo is with a 24" barrel. The bullet will be going pretty slow out there so expansion will be an issue. Any wind will move the bullet a fair distance laterally.

[Ol' Paulie]

Well I mean most hunting isn't done 500yrds away though right? What's a good expectation for a 16in barrel?

[tdbru]

Paulie,
I tend to agree with Fess.

Most bullet manufacturers will list a minimum impact velocity for expansion on their hunting bullets. from your muzzle velocity use any ballistic program to figure out at what distance your bullet will be at the impact velocity limit for expansion. this is your max hunting distance, or it is mine. if the bullet impacts too slow it most likely will perform just like an FMJ. FMJs are prohibited by most fish and game depts for big game hunting. You can whack steel at a long way away. or punch paper at 1000 yards. but the hunting distance, for me, is governed by the remaining bullet speed necessary to initiate expansion. and that distance can vary from bullet manufacturer/type to another.

best to you,
-tdbru

[Ol' Paulie]

Thank you for the input folks. So for 500 to 600m I should stick with 20"?

[Klem]

Paul,

Lilja is as good as any of the best 6.5 barrels. They are a family run business who stand by their quality. They manufacture barrels for civilian national/international matches and are the choice for DEVGRU's recon rifles (the 'M4 Navy' profile - they have a slightly longer 18.8" equivalent profile in Grendel called the '319'). They stamp their barrels with their logo (see their website) so you know it's legit.

Grendel has the smallest case of all the popular 6.5 calibres. That's why it can fit in AR15 mags and use its relatively fragile receiver. Because of this however it is a relatively slow calibre. If bullet expansion is designed as low as 1,500fps then 400m will be its max effective range. Some bullets need at least 2,000fps which is only about 200M in Grendel. This doesn't take into account bullet placement of course and these are broad benchmarks. Also the bullet is influenced by the wind more than the other 6.5 calibres. If long range hunting is your thing then the calibre is not a good choice, regardless of barrel length. 20" and longer is almost compulsory for what you are planning. If longer than 20" you may as well get an AR10 in a larger calibre, with a more normal length barrel typical of an AR. Or get a bolt gun, which will be around 22-26" length. And if you get a bolt gun you may as well get it in a larger calibre. Again, all this for long range hunting.

But surely you can get closer than 600M for the shot.

[Ol' Paulie]

Good heavens there is a lot I have to learn.

[grayfox]

There's a 2-vol set of grendel handbooks for sale on here, that I got when I was starting out. Lots of info applicable to shooting and hunting in general but covers the Grendel about the best you can ask for.
In the AR15 build box threads of the Industry partners part of this forum. I'd recommend you get those books, not expensive at all for the wealth of info you get.

My own personal limit for grendel is ~200 yds, which is based on terminal ballistics of the bullet plus my own estimation of my abilities while in the woods. I try to have the ammo that would work out to 250, hunting is far different than just smacking something with some lead... like the others have already said. Of course I shoot out here in the eastern US so a 200 yd shot is a rarity. Most of my hunting is around 100 yds on in, with an occasional 150-200.

If you want to ethically bring down game at 300-500 yds then you should be looking at a 6.5 creedmoor or even a tad heavier of a rifle... and I would suggest a bolt action as well. Nothing wrong with one shot one kill with a bolt action.

[jasper2408]

Hart and Lilja are button-rifled barrels while Krieger, Brux, and Bartlein are cut rifled barrels.

Now before anyone starts screaming, I am not saying that one is better than the other. I am just putting this info out if it makes a difference to you.

[Ol' Paulie]

How does this compare to 5.56 which many say is 450m effective

[grayfox]

First you need to define "effective." And then what kind of target you intend.
Maybe hitting a coyote at 450, I guess maybe.

[Klem]

How does this compare to 5.56 which many say is 450m effective

Paul,

Depends what your definition of effective is.

F Class shoots .223 to 1,000yards in their competition matches. To them 1K yds is 'effective', although they are only punching holes in a target. If we are talking about '5.56', then it implies we are talking about shooting humans in combat (5.56x45 is the NATO designate for a military cartridge). The humane expectations of hunting are subordinated to the pragmatism of war, and any rules countries may be signatory to, or at least abide by. The definition of 'effective' is different to hunting animals with a .223; it is more about taking the enemy out of battle and wounding might be just as effective as killing. For hunting animals we prefer not to wound, so the same rifle's max effective range will be different, no doubt less. And it also depends what animal you are shooting.

I have heard 200-250M is the max effective range for 5.56mm, but again it depends on the scenario. Is it M262 from a 20" barrel, or SS109/M885 from a 14.4" barrel? One goes further than the other and they have different end results.

The Grendel is like a .223 on steroids, you can add another 200M to the max effective range, but range alone is only one factor in the definition of 'effective'.

Distances that define effective are benchmarks. Militaries for example refer to the expectation of the gun and ammunition in the hands of the average shooter. In our case, in a hunting scenario we refer to ourselves only. How effective are we as individuals, in humanely dispatching what we intend to kill.

[Ol' Paulie]

That's extremely enlightening klem. If only you had some treatise on caliber effectiveness at range. Thank you!

[Ol' Paulie]

Hey everyone I just did some research and since most hunts ate sub 200m I think my envisioning of what I want was way too large thank you all for your help!

[Fess]

I live in NC and quite a lot of local hunters have never made a shot over 200 yards either. Depending on where you plan to hunt, 100 yards can be a long shot.

[Bonas]

Grendel is a $1.00+ a round cartridge now. Don't save money on your barrel. When an A+ barrel costs $450 or so, and a B barrel costs $200 or so, the A+ barrel is a no-brainer.