Grendel "knock-down" survey.

[Roe]

Caught up.

#73 data not included right no as I cannot see pics on this station. Will update later from a different computer.
#78 requests bullet classes. Sorry, I don't have the capacity right now but am happy to email the form. Busy with this right now https://youtu.be/dNyWmMZVkgc
#79 I failed to find the GMX bullet weight. This shot was not registered (but will be with complete data!)
# 81 heavier bullets, the 129gr are looking good if anyone was worried about lower V0.

Approximately 270 shots/game animals registered now. Of these game animals, approximately 210 or 78% fell within 1 line of sight (what I am trying to put a number on: The good feeling a hunter gets when he/she walks up and spots the game).

[Double Naught Spy]

Boar, 175 lbs
Hornady SST 123 gr factory
Top of head
110 yard shot
0 yards ran

[Roe]

Keeping it up to date.

#73 data not included, but will be.

[Von Gruff]

I take it that the majority of DRT results have been from CNS hits. Is there any correlation between the bullet type rather than just the weight for the lung shots that indicates a shorter run. Like most here I appreciate the effort you have put into these data sheets but I wonder how much extra time and effort it would be to separate them into animal types and then bullet types rather than just bullet weights. I have no computer literacy to be able to offer to help with these graphs but would a column beside the DRT column with an indication of CNS hit, as almost any bullet from any rifle will result in a DRT from a CNS hit so that information would add information of which bullets and hits are doing the killing.

[Double Naught Spy]

I would be hard pressed to believe that you could assign a bullet relative to run distance for a double lung shot. Animals have anywhere from 5-15 seconds of run time in them with blown hearts (no circulation) and can run over 100 yards (deer/hogs) in that time. So even with a double lung shot where there might be some lung use for the first couple of breaths, you are going to get run distance and that run distance is going to be exceptionally variable depending on the animal, how well the lungs are hit, etc.

The problem with this sort of tabulation is that the specificity of the information is NOT going to be consistent. Short of each hunter being equally experienced and very knowing of anatomy for necropsying each animal, assessments of placement, penetration, and damage are going to vary widely.

The nice thing about most CNS shots is that they are binary most of the time (DDRT or not). This is because significant CNS damage is about the only way to assure a 0 run distance animal. All other shots are much more likely to produce runners. Even more confusing is that you can get CNS shots that kill the animal from the head down into the shoulders. So some shoulder shots, while damaging the lungs, also injury or destroy the CNS or at least stun the animal long enough for it to bleed out in place.

[JASmith]

DNS is right, and that observation about run distance is likely to have been around for at least 5 or 10 millenia.

Most of us haven't been around that long, so much of the wisdom tends to get forgotten as newfangled widgets seem to override or otherwise make the ancient lessons irrelevant. Then we discover the underlying mechanisms and we see why the old lessons were indeed true.

In this case, the mechanism is fainting due loss of cranial blood pressure. A little bit of time is needed for the loss of consciousness even if the pressure instantly drops to zero. Add to this the random interaction of the bullet with the heart and arteries feeding the brain and we can see why DNS' observations are on the mark.

Nonetheless, I am amazed at how few animals have run past 50, let alone 100, yards.

Bottom line: Roe has caused enough of us to post results in this thread that we mght be able to mine the comments and get meaningful numbers for addressing at least some of our questions.

[sneaky one]

Just bang em in the head - neck area. Nice work Roe !

[Double Naught Spy]

Nonetheless, I am amazed at how few animals have run past 50, let alone 100, yards.

This is another sort of statistical problem and it is a very real sampling error. Missing from the table are the animals that just plain got away wounded or were simply never recovered. Once a hunter loses sight of an animal, the further it goes, the more likely it is not going to be recovered. The denser the vegetation, the more likely the animal isn't going to be recovered. Daylight game hunters who hunt at dusk are more apt to lose an animal that runs into the brush than hunters who hunt at dawn. We don't know how many animals were lost to property lines that could not be crossed.

The bottom line here is that part of the reason you are less apt to have data points at longer distances because those animals are less likely to be recovered for tabulation. There is no fault here, just a reality of sampling and the biases inherent to this sort of data.

[JASmith]

...The bottom line here is that part of the reason you are less apt to have data points at longer distances because those animals are less likely to be recovered for tabulation. There is no fault here, just a reality of sampling and the biases inherent to this sort of data.

DNS' observatioms are attention getting!

How many of us are willing to report real or apparent misses? My hunch is that most folks hit pretty regularly with the Grendel, so seeing an animal walk or run away after a shot is both frustrating and embarassing. Nonetheless the statisitics would be more valid and useful if we could also collect number of shots and the number of known hits.

This could be implemented if Roe can expand the report format to reflect the number of shots fired and the number of animals harvested during thie session. For example, a courageous but honest report for a frustrating day woukd see "3 shots, zero animals."

Further, the information could be made semi-anonymous by sending by PM so only the chart builder has names and numbers.

I would wager that the results from reporting this information will shownthat the Grendel is a very effective cartridge for harvesting game.

[Roe]

Finally was able to include PA-Allens results as well.

Sorry guys, I'm not going to refine this form any further than relaying "Grendel effectiveness". There's so much error in the form anyway, but the general notion of the Grendel being an effective hunting cartridge will still hold very true.

[PA_Allen]

Roe,
Sincere thanks for all your work on this!
- PA

[pkee]

Hornady 140gr SP Interlock
Doe
entry= right front shoulder exit= left rear leg bullet traveled all the through
92 yard shot ran 12 feet

[altejager]

Ok so I will bite. This was first year we hunted with my Grendel. Normally the 21yo daughter uses my t/c encore 7mm08 or the 45 cal muzzleloader. She is quite efficient with both having taken deer at 9 to 170 yards. I let her use the Grendel this year with poor results. Neither of these are the fault of the rifle or rounds used so I'll leave those details to anyone that wants to search other posts.
Day 1 (actually not first time she used rifle). Dad (me) loaded clip and let bolt forward. I have one magazine that the bolt does not seem to take up rounds on right side. She let me know all she was seeing were does, and had a couple bedded down within 20 yards. I said ok pop one in head. "Dad nothing happened when I pulled trigger". Yep empty chamber. Wrong mag. Got to mark it and see what's up. Rack bolt and scare does. No meat.
Day 2 actually a few days later. 0805 'boom about 300 yards from me in direction of daughter and friends daughter. Daughter texts - shot. 4 of buck. Deer just stood there and then looked confused and ran. No blood. Couldn't have missed. I meander over and look at situation. 18 yard shot. No blood. Clear trail in leaves where he ran. After having her vector me to exact spot I tell her she either missed or hit a limb. But being the good dad I am I decide to circle the farm and see if I can send something to the girls. 30 minutes later I get a text of a limb about 2" in diameter half way between her and deer with whole bottom half shot off. I am sure the height of red dot vs barrel was cause. When I asked why she didn't shoot again her response was - I forgot it was automatic. I'm so used to other gun when I only get one shot, and I've never missed.
So it does happen. And neither of my reported kills where great shots either but enough to do the job.

[Roe]

Updated. We have registered our first 140gr deer harvest! pkee, out of curiosity, do you know what V0/ barrel lenght you have with your 140gr?

Sorry, I was unable to extract data from post #103

[pkee]

Roe , I do not have the VO on the 140g . The load was 23.8 of 8208 with CCI 450 and OAL 2.25" . I shoot it out of a 18" AR Stoner barrel . This load was where i started the work ups . I found that i got good groups using 25.3g of 8208 , but i was out of them .
on a side note ,
I was helping my buddy track his Doe. when i found her she jumped up and i shot her dropping her in her tracks . I hit her in the neck at a very close range about 8 to 10 'away . . I did not include it because it had already been shot with a 220 Swift . by my buddy .