Why I Chose to Hunt with the 6.5 Grendel

[bj139]

FG,
Thanks. My 6.5G Howa bolt should be all I will ever need for deer in Pennsylvania.

[Frontier Gear]

In order to better show the significance of bullet drop with the large caliber AR rounds, I have graphed a few of them. This has brought to my attention that my first post is missing an important factor which I took into consideration when selecting the 6.5 Grendel. This factor is point of impact. The energy, velocity and weight of the 450 and 458 all indicate that they are good for deer out to 300 yards. This comes at a cost though. The cost is that we now have to be very cognizant of the exact distance of our target and how to adjust our aim point accordingly. When target shooting at a known distance it is fairly easy to adjust for bullet drop. However, when hunting we often do not have that luxury. When a buck jumps out of the brush, it is pretty easy to quickly judge if it is within 200 yards of us or not. If we have a flat shooting round, we can simply "point and shoot". If the trajectory of our bullet is that of a rainbow, we now have to determine what that range is or we will miss. It is true that modern range finders have made this much easier, but it would be better if we didn't have to worry about it at all. Why should I mess with it if I don't have to? A general estimate of a deer or bear's vital area is a 10 inch circle. So that gives us 5 inches of wiggle room if we aim at the center of the circle. With that number in mind, let's look at the chart below. All rifles are zeroed at 200 yards.

450 458 Drop Chart.jpg

50 Yards
300gr TTSX 458 SOCOM = Hit, But is already at 4 inches of raise
325gr FTX 458 SOCOM = Miss, Almost 6 inches or raise
250gr FTX 450 Bushmaster 20” = Hit, 2.6 inches of raise
123gr 6.5 Grendel 12” Barrel = Hit, 1.7 inches of raise
123gr 6.5 Grendel 24” Barrel = Hit, 1.1 inches of raise

100 Yards
300gr TTSX 458 SOCOM = Miss, 6.5 inches of raise
325gr FTX 458 SOCOM = Miss, 9 inches or raise
250gr FTX 450 Bushmaster 20” = Hit, 4.5 inches of raise
123gr 6.5 Grendel 12” Barrel = Hit, 3.1 inches of raise
123gr 6.5 Grendel 24” Barrel = Hit, 2.3 inches of raise

150 Yards
300gr TTSX 458 SOCOM = Miss, 5.4 inches of raise
325gr FTX 458 SOCOM = Miss, 7.4 inches or raise
250gr FTX 450 Bushmaster 20” = Hit, 3.8 inches of raise
123gr 6.5 Grendel 12” Barrel = Hit, 2.6 inches of raise
123gr 6.5 Grendel 24” Barrel = Hit, 1.9 inches of raise

200 Yards
All hit as it is our zero point

250 Yards
300gr TTSX 458 SOCOM = Miss, 10.3 inches of drop
325gr FTX 458 SOCOM = Miss, Almost 14 inches or drop
250gr FTX 450 Bushmaster 20” = Miss, 7.6 inches of drop
123gr 6.5 Grendel 12” Barrel = Hit, 4.7 inches of drop
123gr 6.5 Grendel 24” Barrel = Hit, 3.6 inches of drop

Even the 12" Grendel gives us a "point and shoot" range from 0-250 yards. Although by the time the 12" Grendel is at 250 yards, it is just barely within our 10" circle. Compare that to the large calibers. The 458 needs to be compensated for at almost every distance. The 450 Bushmaster does a better job than the 458 but it is just barely within our circle at 100 yards. This is one of the most common hunting distances and it doesn't leave much room for error on the part of the hunter. A little "buck fever" or an unsteady rest will result in a missed shot. Both of which are very common when out in the field.

Now let's take it to the end of their effective range, 300 yards. Hopefully at this distance you will be taking your time to determine the range. They shouldn't even know you are there and you should have plenty of time to find a good rest, take a few deep breaths and adjust your hold over point. So how much hold over do we need?

300 Yards
300gr TTSX 458 SOCOM = 26.6 inches
325gr FTX 458 SOCOM = 35.3 inches
250gr FTX 450 Bushmaster 20” = 19.8 inches
123gr 6.5 Grendel 12” Barrel = 11.9 inches
123gr 6.5 Grendel 24” Barrel = 9.1 inches

While even the 24" Grendel requires hold over at this distance, it is significantly less than the large caliber rounds.

The last thing that I'd like to mention is the variance per round. The 458 graphs are a good example of this. A change in bullet selection makes for a corresponding change on the point of impact. This is true for all bullets, but it is amplified when using the slower, large caliber rounds. In my experience, most hunters will buy a box of bullets and go sight in their rifle, say a 308. When that box is gone, they will then go to the nearest store and look for the same box. If they can't find it, they buy the closest thing they can. It may be a different brand or slightly different weight. For a 308 at hunting distances it probably doesn't matter when you are aiming at a 10 inch circle. Going from 300 grains to 325 grains on the 458 makes a big difference though. At 300 yards it is a difference of 8.7 inches.

[LRRPF52]

The eye-opener for me was 16" 6.5 Grendel energy at 200yds compared to any of the big bores pushing huge bullets with insane muzzle energy.

They lose it by 200yds, drops like a rock in a headwind. I expected a lot more energy, but lack of BC kills them, even the .375 SOCOM.

[65Whelen]

Excellent post. Thanks for taking the time to put your data into graphs, it really make the point. The Grendel certainly qualifies as one of the few "if you had to pick one round" question.

[Frankness14]

Good read and food for thought

[Les]

While I appreciate the time and effort put into your research I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on the attributes of the .243 Winchester on medium game. I'm not sure what bullet you're using while wounding/tracking Deer but from my experience with the cartridge using factory WW box I've yet to track one over 40yrds. Between myself, son and now my 89 year old ex-marine of a Dad we've been using this rifle since the early 90's on mostly Muleys. Because I don't twist knobs hunting I prefer the 80 gr over the 100gr mostly due to not as much holdover and if you're not careful with it, it'll practically cut a coyote in 2. In the spirt of full disclosure my experience was with factory ammo.

[bj139]

I just bought the last one of these. I couldn't resist the price.
I posted back in the spring how I would end up at 6x45.

https://truesportingarmsllc.com/prod...18-br-tc-mach/

This article influenced my decision. Now I need dies.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/6mm_military_cartridge.htm

Would there be a potential safety problem or will 6x45 not chamber in a 5.56 chamber?
I'm thinking it won't.

[burnsy13]

Great write up and graphs. Seriously one of the better threads I've seen on a gun forum.

[bj139]

Pennsylvania does have a few herds of wild elk in the center of the state.

The game commission has imposed a limit of 27 caliber or above for hunting elk so 6.5 Grendel cannot be used.

I know people have killed elk with the Grendel but it seems to me like deer hunting with a 223.

It is just a little too small.

[Frontier Gear]

Pennsylvania does have a few herds of wild elk in the center of the state.

The game commission has imposed a limit of 27 caliber or above for hunting elk so 6.5 Grendel cannot be used.

I know people have killed elk with the Grendel but it seems to me like deer hunting with a 223.

It is just a little too small.

I guess I don't see the logic in this. According to that you could hunt elk with a 30-30. So let's compare the 30-30 to the Grendel.

Grendel vs 30-30.jpg

Unless you are thinking of shooting the elk at point blank range, the Grendel has more energy than the 30-30 and does a much better job of maintaining that energy. As long as the bullet has enough mass and weight retention to transfer the energy to the animal, there shouldn't be an issue.


State laws don't always make sense though. Take my home state of Washington as an example. The rules for hunting big game (anything larger than a coyote) with modern handguns are as follows.

• Must be centerfire
• Must be over 24 caliber
• Must have a minimum barrel length of 4 inches as measured by the manufacture.

With those requirements I can legally hunt moose and elk with my 380ACP pistol (4" barrel), but my dad can not hunt deer with his S&W 44 magnum (3" barrel). Try to find the logic in that one.

[bj139]

I see what you mean with the 30-30. I would feel under gunned with that for elk although I have no experience with elk hunting.
I looked up the requirements for PA elk hunting and the bullet must be at least 130gr as well.
I can't fault the requirements being what they are. I would use 180gr 30-06.

[LRRPF52]

[Frontier Gear]

That elk just hit the dirt. Looked like it was very effective, especially if he hit it in the shoulder like his buddy told him to. Shoulders can be tough to punch through.

[6.5 Grendel Fever]

Thanks for doing this thread, and also appreciate the videos. It shows just how affective/efficient this round is ...Good stuff guys.

[6.5 Grendel Fever]

Multi caliber comparison gel test ...

https://youtu.be/BROdbEm5wqA