Deer hunting

[mandango33]

I recently bought a 6.5 Grendel in a Howa heavy barrel (not the chasis rifle) and mounted a Leupold 3-9x40 Freedom optic on it and with Hornady Black ammo it shoots pretty good. I am currently getting under an inch at 100 yards which is not what I hoped for, but not bad either. Hornady SSTs shoot horribly and at the moment that is the only two bullets I have tried. During the youth hunt my son killed a spike buck, quartering to us at 50 yards. He made a good shot considering he is 11 and the deer only went about 50 yards. The other day my friend killed a doe at 65 yards. Not a great shot, quartering to us and he hit it a touch too far back and it exited the gut. The exit hole was crazy huge! Most of the intestines were outside the body when we found her 50 yards away. Shortly after I shot one in the face at 120 yards off hand, again, the Hornady ELD match Black ammo did a great job and she died quickly (obviously, she was shot in the face).


My reasoning for posting this is to ask if anyone has any information as to how these bullets perform at longer distance. At 400 yards these hold 979 foot pounds of energy and only drops 9 MOA. I was hoping to take one at 400 this year and I have the farm and the deer population to do it. I was hoping for first hand knowledge on how the ELD does at longer ranges.


Spare me the 'you're unethical" posts. I have shot at longer distances extensively and have no doubt on my ability, only on the bullets performance on live tissue at that distance. Thanks ahead of time for any help.

[Bigs28]

No unethical post here. The eldm and sst will kill if you put it through the vitals. What's your velocity at 400 yards?

[VASCAR2]

Prior to the release of the Hornady 123 grain SST the 123 grain A-Max was frequently used for hunting with success. The only real difference from the Hornady Black ELD-M and the A-Max is the heat resistant tip used in the ELD-M. The 123 grain SST has a cannelure to help resist bullet core jacket seperation whereas there is no cannelure on the A-Max or ELD-M. There are gel test with both 123 grain SST and 123 grain ELD-M where the results were very similar out of a 12" 6.5 Grendel AR-15.

My concern with the ELD-M would be a shot at very close range where the velocity is close 2600 FPS out of a 24" barrel. The ELD-M might not give a pass through on a deer especially if large bone is impacted. Many forum members prefer to perforate the deer as two holes permits a better blood trail. At longer distances where the velocity is lower the 123 grain SST and A-Max/ELD-M performance is very similar.

A friend has taken numerous antelope with the 120 grain Nosler BT with the longest documented kill at a lasered 416 yards using his 24" AR-15. If you can put the bullet in the correct location the 123 grain ELD-M will work. Are there better bullets or cartridges, maybe but it is your choice. Any projectile can take an unpredictable path. In real life things happen, bullets can be deflected by unseen tree limbs or the animal moves.

Here is a post from Adam Lilja where he used a 20" 6.5 Grendel.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?9368-502-Yd-Whitetail

There are numerous threads in this section where you can read the results from members using the 6.5 Grendel on deer and larger game.

I personally am more concerned with my skill in putting the bullet where it needs to go more than the difference between an 123 grain SST and ELD-M. Everyone has their own opinion on this topic and to each their own.

Here is a link to a thread where 123 grain A-Max and 123 grain SST were used. My Friend also took a antelope buck at approximately 520 yards with his 24" 6.5 Grendel with a handload using 120 grain BT at 7200' ASL in Wyoming. My Friend stated he felt that was the longest range his 24" 6.5 Grendel would give adequate performance in those conditions.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?7288-antelope-hunting-with-the-6.5-G

Follow this link to see the 123 grain SST and 123 grain Black ELD-M gel test videos.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/6-5mm-Grendel-Hornady-Black-123gr-ELD-Gel-Test/5-2166215/

[LRRPF52]

The ELD-M has lower expansion threshold, so could be better for the 400yd shots if you're counting on expansion.

Accuracy seems to be favoring it as well for you, so I would get a lot of trigger time from field positions at the distances you anticipate if you haven't already.

Very easy rifle to shoot though, as you've seen.

Making 400yd shots with my 18", 16", and 12" Grendels is pretty boring.

[mandango33]

Just got back from my hunt with my 11 year old. We opted for the 243 Ruger American Predator and a 10.5" ar15 in 556, one for close range and one for long range. We only seen one good size doe and she was at 408 yards, ranged with my sig range finder. I use an old camera tripod for shooting sticks when in the field and they work great for that. I ended up making the shot and she dropped. That is the first time I have shot at over 250 yards and it was a pretty satisfying ordeal. My 243 is topped with a 6-24x50 scope and I had it dialed in at 18X. I don't feel that the 9X on the 6.5 would make me feel too confident when shooting at live animals at over 300 yards. So, next year I will get a better optic and hopefully find a hunting bullet with a higher BC for the longer range shots. My 243 is shooting HSM VLD 95 grainers into 1.75" groups at 318 yards, and they mess deer up.

As for the velocity of the ELD-M's and not getting passthroughs, that gun has shot 3 deer this year, all were passthroughs and no shots were over 125 yards. I am impressed with the little Hornady Black bullet, but was concerned with the performance at longer ranges. At 400 yards I am calculating that the bullet is moving a tad over 1850 FPS and hitting with a tad under 950 foot pounds of energy. Killing a lot of deer between 125 and 150 with a 16" AR15 tells me that 940 FPE is plenty to put meat on the freezer.

[grayfox]

Where I shoot (~ 350 elev) the factory 123 Eldm shoots about 2450 or so (it's been a while since I chrono'd it), and for my 20" HB howa barrel I used some JB bore paste to smooth it out but I don't think factory is ~2500. Now my handloads in the 123's shoot about 2505, so at that MV you'd be looking at 1896 ft/s at 400 yds. The Hornady's IIRC have about an 1800 ft/s min opening velocity...

Let me also recommend that you
a) get a chrony, and
b) get the Grendel Handbooks vol 1-2 from the AR 15 buildbox section of this forum.
Those little books have a wealth of info, among which are gel test results for lots of bullets over lots of velocities. The Amax and SST are in them as I recall, and the Amax, while older and a bit different, is pretty much like the Eldm. Again, on this post I'm kinda going from memory so would stand corrected if necessary.