Grendel penetration

[Double Naught Spy]

The thorastic shock a 150G bullet at 3000fps is far more than a 123g 6.5 @ 2400 fps from the Grendel.

CW

I have never heard of thorastic shock. Explain please.

[cwlongshot]

Thorastic shock is what a bullet does/produces when it enters a body or fluids.

It is the reason high powered rifle calibers dont get “GEL” tested. The thorastic shock obliterates the block. Its a “thing” that begins to be a measureable thing over 40k and really gets aparent at 3K plus velocities. Fragile bullet at lesser velocities, can also show the effects.

Basically its the “energy” dump many speak of. Difference with many of them is they feel exits waste energy. Sure some is “wasted” but realistically all “useful” energy has been departed. Think of that gel block and a slow motion video, with say a 240g 44 Mag HP. It produces near a football ball sized disrupruption. As the vel drops, so does the ability of that bullet to cause damage. So you see that theory of wasted energy is simply untrue. Or at the very least so little “lost” its not worth worrying about.

CW

[Djgrendel]

I am aware of the comparison I made. Sarcasm is hard to hear on a text based forum. But it's minimally different than the OP. Close range, hard impact. All in all, his bullet did not go where it belonged or he would be eating venison instead of disappointment

[A5BLASTER]

Apples to oranges comparison. The 300 is a overbore powerhouse. Its ratio of powder to bullet is far above the Grendel (would be a UNDER bore if there was such a thing) even witha lil 85g slug!
My buddy swears by SST 150’s in his ‘06 cause the animal drops and no exits. The thorastic shock a 150G bullet at 3000fps is far more than a 123g 6.5 @ 2400 fps from the Grendel.

CW

Placement of said bullet will always and forever trump bullet speed and size. That's a fact that most will argue till blue in the face and their pants ignite in flames.

Regardless of bullet construcrion, size ie caliber or speed if the bullet is placed high shoulder/spine it will drop. And in my experience every time.

If placed in the heart/lung area there is no guarantee it will drop in place no matter how big and fast the bullet is moving or how lightly constructed or how heavily constructed the bullet is.

As far as high velocity calibers not being tested in gel or some other kind of media. I'm not sure that's true, I mean how would they know what a given bullets expansion levels are if they do not shoot it into some kind of testing material to find out.

[cwlongshot]

Ii agree but your missing my point.

100% agreement POI is important. Where over with what.

The energy of the three hundred is double the grendel. The bullet diameter is about 20% more. Dont for a minute think bullet sia is not important.

Example; We are going bear hunting. You can take the 223 or the 45/70. The 23 is almost twice as fast, and both produce nearly same energy. Which do you choose?

The adility for a bullet to kill rapidly is directly dependent on the amount of disruption it causes. Larger bullets initially disrupt more tissue. If they expand this increases. Most smaller bullets also expand. But are generally hard presses to reach say the dia of a 45/70 bullet.

CW

[FW Conch]

It depends on what You want to achieve. I know when I hit a deer with My 358 Win, 225grn SGK, starting at 2,400fps or less, it will likely knock the animal off it's feet, breaking major bones, but causing minimal meat damage. This I have done. The animal kicks for a few seconds and ends up in a red puddle.

I don't do brain or CNS shots because I like My deer to bleed out, and I don't want to damage back strap or tenderloin.

As I posted last fall on another thread, I took a deer with My Grendel shooting Amax, low chest shot, deer blead out both sides like a water hose, dropped in 40yds. Perfect.

All depends on what Your holding as to what You have to do.

I haven't taken a deer with My 444 Marlin yet, but I can't wait

[Stinky Coyote]

[A5BLASTER]

Ii agree but your missing my point.

100% agreement POI is important. Where over with what.

The energy of the three hundred is double the grendel. The bullet diameter is about 20% more. Dont for a minute think bullet sia is not important.

Example; We are going bear hunting. You can take the 223 or the 45/70. The 23 is almost twice as fast, and both produce nearly same energy. Which do you choose?

The adility for a bullet to kill rapidly is directly dependent on the amount of disruption it causes. Larger bullets initially disrupt more tissue. If they expand this increases. Most smaller bullets also expand. But are generally hard presses to reach say the dia of a 45/70 bullet.

CW

Don't know not legel to hunt bear in my state but if it was neither of those 2 calibers would even be considered for the job. 223 is well just a 22 and personally feel it isn't good on anything bigger then a yote. 45/70 I will never own one it's a meat waister seen it with my own eyes, have a 35 wheelen its a meat waister and kicks like a mule.

Yet it hasnt produced any faster or any more dead'er animal then my grendel has.

Buddy shot a nice 8 point on his lease in OK this year with his 300wm, think he was useing like a 200 something grain bullet.

Buck was close to 180 pounds and a hair over 300 yards. 3 shots later to the heart/lung and lower shoulder area finally put him on the ground. And yes I seen the pics of what damage looked like and bullet placement and travel and exit. All shots entered in tracked through vitals before leaving the body. Yet it didn't drop, it still tryed to run away. Why?

The CNS was still working no high shoulder/spine hit or damage.

Like I stated before bullet placement is 100% the reason a animal drops, speed caliber isn't as important. I use to belive the opposite was true but not anymore.

As I stated before this is a argument that can go on for ever because there will always be that old mind set that a person needs 3000 plus fps and 200 plus grains weight bullets from a rifle producing 45 pounds of recoil to kill a animal.

[Double Naught Spy]

Thorastic shock is what a bullet does/produces when it enters a body or fluids.

It is the reason high powered rifle calibers dont get “GEL” tested. The thorastic shock obliterates the block. Its a “thing” that begins to be a measureable thing over 40k and really gets aparent at 3K plus velocities. Fragile bullet at lesser velocities, can also show the effects.

Basically its the “energy” dump many speak of. Difference with many of them is they feel exits waste energy. Sure some is “wasted” but realistically all “useful” energy has been departed. Think of that gel block and a slow motion video, with say a 240g 44 Mag HP. It produces near a football ball sized disrupruption. As the vel drops, so does the ability of that bullet to cause damage. So you see that theory of wasted energy is simply untrue. Or at the very least so little “lost” its not worth worrying about.

CW

Interesting. Sounds like you are describing hydraulic shock when you refer to the football-sized disruption. Can you provide links? I can't find anything via google or bing. Thorastic appears to refer to the thorax. In reading on ballistic trauma, I find hydraulic shock and hydrostatic shock, but nothing on thorastic shock.

I have no idea what you mean when you say high powered rifles don't get gel tested. They most certainly do. You can find all sorts of examples on Youtube. You can find .50 bmg, .22-150 or .300 win mag gel tests.

[cwlongshot]

This is the flaw with the written word. I think we are all mostly in agreement.

Again, agreed Placement is tantimount. Slightly second is a PROPER bullet for the task at hand.

Stinky, Gospel truth my friend!!

FW, You and i have agreed more times than not and this iss ko dofferent. Those 35’s are awesome killers. And allot of that is diameter.

CW

[Troutguide]

Well this year my buddy and I had identical shots at about the same size deer I shot 123 sst from my Grendel and he shot 150 or 160 sst from his 30.06 both about 40yd. Both dead within sight thankfully because both entered high shoulder quartering too and didn’t exit. Both bullets were found just below skin on opposite side. Zero blood trail but still dead deer. Caliber makes no difference, the sst bullet does not always exit. A good shot however gives a dead deer quickly. All this being said I am going to hunt with ABLR or TTSX next season. I like blood trails just in case. FYI I have killed three other deer with sst and a full pas through. Still not my favorite.