Ethical Kill range for 6.5 Grendel

[Swampfox]

[cwlongshot]

IMHO,

I like to judge first by foot pounds on target. There are valid variables, but FOE, is as good a gauge as any I know of. It dosent take diameter or SD into the picture.

1000 is general accepted rule for normal whitetail sized animals. 1500 mueledeer & Carabou and 2000 Elk sized lastly 2500+ for American dangerious game.

That last ine is light for my likes and the first aint warm a fuzzy either.

I killed a pile of sub 250#, non dangerious critters with impact energys past 2K and the results where allot of DRT SHOTS.

SOME TWENTY years back. I started hunting closer to home. More populated areas and the 358/308/30-06 seemed “wrong” for these smaller parcels. I turned to the 45 Colt and 357 Maximum. Later the 300 Blk and lately the Grendel. Lastly cause I say face to face the lil 300’s limits. I needed a little more.


The heavy loaded 45’s also gave quite a few bang flops!! The Maximum did as well. And out of the almost dozen taken with the 300 blk, nothing was lost, but only two DRT & one was head shot. I have only taken one with the Grendel having just hunted last year. Its an unfair gudgment as it was a very large deer at 300+ live weight. The deer went farther than I would have liked but was dead when I got there.


I kinda took the long way around here, but personally, I limit the lil G to 250yards. I might push that to 300y in wide open ranges shooting pronghorn.

CW

[bj139]

My dad says one should have around 1500 KE for a ethical kill. She states this and kills deer with 22LR around 100 yards lol. Help me win this debate for the 6.5 Grendel.

"My dad says one should have around 1500 KE for a ethical kill. She states this and kills deer with 22LR around 100 yards lol."

You might want to edit this, unless you mean it how it is written. I have to be careful to be sensitive to my fellow citizens these days just in case I have misinterpreted.

[Keef]

As far away as you can be sure it will go in the vitals
That's really all that matters.

[Swampfox]

"My dad says one should have around 1500 KE for a ethical kill. She states this and kills deer with 22LR around 100 yards lol."

You might want to edit this, unless you mean it how it is written. I have to be careful to be sensitive to my fellow citizens these days just in case I have misinterpreted.

I mean how it was written my dad has and still sometimes hunts whitetail deer with a 22LR. He has also killed them at around 100 yards with a 22LR. I have to include this nowadays 95% of the time if he hunts whitetails with a 22 caliber he uses a 22 Hornet. When he does hunt with a 22 of any kind he shoots them in the head.

BJ139 I have been in the military for 16years I don’t need any one to be sensitive around me lol.

[grayfox]

What's an ethical kill for a bow/arrow?
How far should an animal be allowed to run before dying and it still be ethical?
Lots of room for fuzzy logics in there.
I personally am of the ~1000 ke persuasion, in the vital zone with a proper hunting bullet, for deer-sized game but others on here will opt for something different. My 16" Grendel with a 123 sst handload (2410 ft/s) still has 1006 at 325 yds. For my 110 control chaos it's more like 275 yds.
That definition works for me but I'm not dogmatic that others have to adopt it.

If I'm planning shots more than 250 however I would probably take something else along with longer reach... again, that's just me... my creedmoor is more like > 500 yds, but I'm not certain enough that I will place that shot first time, every time at that distance. For me, my shooter ability is the weak link... which is why I practice.

At the end of the day, the term "ethical" may just possibly have more to do with shooter skill than purely ke or any other metric.

[Swampfox]

What's an ethical kill for a bow/arrow?
How far should an animal be allowed to run before dying and it still be ethical?
Lots of room for fuzzy logics in there.
I personally am of the ~1000 ke persuasion, in the vital zone with a proper hunting bullet, for deer-sized game but others on here will opt for something different. My 16" Grendel with a 123 sst handload (2410 ft/s) still has 1006 at 325 yds. For my 110 control chaos it's more like 275 yds.
That definition works for me but I'm not dogmatic that others have to adopt it.

If I'm planning shots more than 250 however I would probably take something else along with longer reach... again, that's just me... my creedmoor is more like > 500 yds, but I'm not certain enough that I will place that shot first time, every time at that distance. For me, my shooter ability is the weak link... which is why I practice.

At the end of the day, the term "ethical" may just possibly have more to do with shooter skill than purely ke or any other metric.

Gray I agree with you on ethical possibility have more to do with shooter skill than KE, but what I’m wanting today is take the shooter completely out and just focus on the round.

[sneaky one]

I only have 1 long range story for the Mighty Grrr. I usually hunt in thick northern forests- shots are 10- to maybe 100 yds. I enjoy the quick shooting -snap shots.
400 yds., first Grr deer, 2008. Wind howling 35 mph from my 10:30 position, I had the sunset in my face, there's a buck. Kentucky windage,,X10.

First shot -close, deer heard the sound of bullet in front of nose. It swung it's head side to side quickly- 1 more try, a 129 SST took the right front leg off after it hit bone in bicep muscle.


If held 6" to the left it would have been a solid chest hit. We put the deer down soon after. My hunt pal called me- 400 yds?, was it a .50 BMG you're using? A leg is off!


Very impressive for a new rifle , for me - the .308 guy from the past.


My new AR in 6.5 Grrrr.! That's the same bullet I'm loading to bring to Texas next month on My big road trip to hunt hogs, south of San Antone. It's lead core, I know,,,,,,,,,,

head shots are the goal- eradication also. Maybe a few loins and hind quarters will be brought home.

[A5BLASTER]

For me I base how far I can take a game animal I'm wanting on my barrel length/velocity of round and where it hits min expansion speed for said bullet.

I train and know my limits.

I'm a head/neck high shoulder shooter 9 times out of 10.

[grayfox]

Gray I agree with you on ethical possibility have more to do with shooter skill than KE, but what I’m wanting today is take the shooter completely out and just focus on the round.

10-4, o btw, you also might want to take into account the lowest opening velocity, and stay above that as far as yardage goes... For the 123sst it's 1800 IIRC, others differ.

The Grendel handbooks have a lot of info in them on bullet terminal performance, opening velocities, and recommended usable yardage-range, based on barrel, animal, and etc. Great little books to have, in the AR15-build-box.com section of the vendor part of this forum. If you don't have them, I highly recommend them to you!

[BCHunter]

Don't think this is a winnable argument. If he's old school and shoots deer at 100 yards with a .22lr!,...which I personally wouldn't shoot a squirrel at 100 yards. No formula is gonna sway him the 6.5 grendel is a 500 yard deer slayer.,...even though by the numbers would clearly show the 6.5g is well above what he is doing with the .22lr!

[Djgrendel]

As far as you can positively make the shot. A poor hit is a poor hit. I don't shoot at game much over 400 yards with any cartridge. The grendel can, I cannot. So the ethical portion is more about your capabilities. Save the long range for steel. It isn't going to run for miles if you make a bad shot, and you don't have to go find it. I don't adhere to "hits points", ft. Lbs, or whatever the new word will be next year. Practice will tell you if the cartridge, or shooter is up to the task. But if you need to know the numbers to satisfy an appetite, lrrp52 has many threads pertaining to exactly that. Or just buy the grendel handbooks. The info will be found inside the covers.

[rabiddawg]

500 yds on whitetail if you are up to it.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?9368-502-Yd-Whitetail

This link stays in my signature because I got tired of searching for it.

I would only try such a shot under ideal conditions but 400 yds wouldn’t bother me st all.

[WanderingZero]

As far as you can positively make the shot. A poor hit is a poor hit. I don't shoot at game much over 400 yards with any cartridge. The grendel can, I cannot. So the ethical portion is more about your capabilities. Save the long range for steel. It isn't going to run for miles if you make a bad shot, and you don't have to go find it. I don't adhere to "hits points", ft. Lbs, or whatever the new word will be next year. Practice will tell you if the cartridge, or shooter is up to the task. But if you need to know the numbers to satisfy an appetite, lrrp52 has many threads pertaining to exactly that. Or just buy the grendel handbooks. The info will be found inside the covers.

I concur. "As far as you can positively make the shot." I'm sure a .223 would have the necessary energy for a kill at 1000 yards, provided a proper hit - through the ear, for example. It would take superhuman ability to be able to make that shot, but if the shooter did somehow have that ability, 1000 yards would be the ethical kill range. A 100 yard shot with a 300 magnum would be unethical if the shooter did not possess the ability to ensure a hit to the vitals at that range. Arbitrary energy figures are also a simplistic metric as they don't take bullet construction into account - X foot pounds from an match bullet or varmint bullet is not the same as X foot pounds from a hunting bullet that is properly suited to the cartridge and to the game being hunted.

[Stinky Coyote]