Do all guys in Texas have X-ray vision?

**oyster** · 12-13-2022, 06:04 PM

Personally I just go slow and most nights there's enough light to see most obstacles. Also if I'm hunting harvested fields I try to go with the rows even if it's been cut low. Pigs will tolerate some noise but I check on them with my scanner every few minutes and if they stop feeding to look around I stop till they go back to feeding.
Jay

**Double Naught Spy** · 12-14-2022, 01:58 AM

Chuck! Thanks for watching! HOLY MOLY!

Smart folks navigate with Gen 3+ night vision, but scan and shoot with thermal. I use thermal for all three, but I don't use thermal to watch my steps, but will look at the ground ahead of me and then proceed, say, 20 yards, stop and repeat while checking on the hogs as well. This works okay. Vegetation hiding the ground is always a problem regardless of whether you are using a flashlight, NV, or thermal.

The speed at which we stalk is often dependent on environmental conditions, ground conditions, familiarity with the land, and behavior of the hogs. For example, it is hard to move quickly and quietly when things are dry and crunchy. It is hard to move quickly when the land is rooted or traversed by erosional gullies. If I am on a property or area of a property I am not familiar with, I am more apt to go slowly.

I have taken a number of tumbles. Most are very minor. A few have managed to send me to the doctor or the ER.

The way Ben keeps from falling down is by following me. If I suddenly disappear from sight, followed by a thud and/or cursing, Ben knows to stop and then proceed very cautiously to help retrieve me. A fellow I hunted with years ago wasn't so keen. He fell in the same little ravines I did, both times after being warned, the second time actually falling on me!

I am NOT an advocate of wearing a headlamp that is on when I stalk because I am afraid it will spook the hogs. However, I know of a guy that will stalk to within 50 yards of hogs with his light on, go dark, set up, and start shooting. Being the learners that they are, hogs will come to associate being shot at with headlamps being on in the field and run away in the future when they see headlamps in the field. So I have to believe that while a headlamp may be beneficial to your stalk, it may not be beneficial to your hunts.

Have I seen hogs chased away by headlamps being on? No. But, I have seen hogs spooked by the dim red glow of an 850 nm IR light. Actually, I have seen this several times. While they don't see the shine, they do see the glow and if they have been hunted previously in that manner and see the red glowing orb before the shooting starts, they are apt to be running before the shooting starts.

With that said, if I have scanned the area to make sure there are no more hogs and if I am concerned about the ground, I will walk out with my light on, but only as bright as I need it. This isn't good fieldcraft, but I figure that if I am done for the night or believe the hogs are done for now, no reason to risk taking a tumble.

If I think hogs may still be around, instead of using a white light, I will use a red light to make my way out.

Bottom Line: You gotta do what you need to stay safe.

Also, I have a tracking app on my phone, such that if something happens, my wife will at least know where I am if I am unable to call.

**Billinthedesert** · 12-16-2022, 07:48 PM

OK, so the next question is can you see rattlesnakes with Gen 3 vision?

**Double Naught Spy** · 12-16-2022, 08:15 PM

Of course you can. With that said, camo works against NV. A snake can be very hard to see because of its patterning and the background behind/around it, even out in the open. If camo works well for the animal in daylight, it works even better at night with NV. Thermal is another matter. IF (BIG IF) the snake is sufficiently contrasted by temperature from its surroundings, there is an excellent chance you can see it on thermal, regardless of the camo pattern and how well it matches its surroundings. It doesn't take a huge temperature difference to see the snake, but if the snake has been in the same spot for hours, chances are it is about the same temp as its surroundings. A moving snake or snake recently moved to a spot tends to carry its own level of heat over terrain and vegetation that will vary in temperature and hence the snake will appear to stand out.

A snake well blended and the same temp as its surroundings will be nearly impossible to see at night with naked eyes, NV, or thermal, FYI.

**Klem** · 12-16-2022, 10:11 PM

Talking about moving through the bush at night with NVG's I will add that there is a big difference when using them in stereoscope. For example, the difference between fitting a single PVS14 (3 Gen) to a helmet and using a PVS15 with its two tubes. Stereoscopic vision allows you to judge distance much better and gives confidence when walking over lumpy ground. Same when driving, although the shadows for potholes can be shallow or deep, and you won't know that until you drive into a big hole. Another barrier is the cost of having two tubes instead of one.

While NVG sees detail the only time I have seen it surpass thermal in shooting was at 300M shooting on steel at night. The background of the steel was the rifle range butts and the thermals could not see any temperature difference. Of course that is absolutely no useful advantage when what you are training to shoot will be warm.

**diggler1833** · 12-22-2022, 09:10 PM

Real men walk off embankments...ask me how I know.

Fell into an armadillo hole last night trying to chase a boar around a pasture. Made enough noise that he heard, and it was a horse race to get him dead before he left for good.

**tdbru** · 12-23-2022, 12:28 AM

Quick question for those who know, because I don't.

I have read that for most prey mammals, they only have rods in the retina and hence don't see color, though due to the amount/density of the rods in the retina, they see b/w and shades of gray pretty good even in low light, like at night.

would a RED LED that emits at one wavelength be invisible to a pig? Do pigs have any cones in the retina or are they all rods like many other mammals? I've always used a red led head lamp or red led flashlight to move through to a hunting area early morning before dawn because it was my understanding that deer couldn't see the red light from an LED since they have no cones in the retina.

I was wondering if pigs were the same. There was enough red light given off by the LED that close range navigation (within 5 feet) was possible at night.

thanks,
-tdbru

**CJW** · 12-23-2022, 10:40 AM

That is a great question tdbru

**Double Naught Spy** · 12-23-2022, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by tdbru View Post

Quick question for those who know, because I don't.

I have read that for most prey mammals, they only have rods in the retina and hence don't see color, though due to the amount/density of the rods in the retina, they see b/w and shades of gray pretty good even in low light, like at night.

would a RED LED that emits at one wavelength be invisible to a pig? Do pigs have any cones in the retina or are they all rods like many other mammals? I've always used a red led head lamp or red led flashlight to move through to a hunting area early morning before dawn because it was my understanding that deer couldn't see the red light from an LED since they have no cones in the retina.

I was wondering if pigs were the same. There was enough red light given off by the LED that close range navigation (within 5 feet) was possible at night.

thanks,
-tdbru

I believe you have read incorrectly. A lot of animals (predator, prey, herbivore, carnivore, omnivore) are red-green colorblind like deer, hogs, most (all?) canids. So they don't see color in the red end of the spectrum, but do see farther into the blue UV end of the spectrum than we do. They still see red and green things and light, but not as red or green. It is thought that those colors appear more greyish to them.

You have fallen into the classic trap of the colorblind myth. People think that when animals are colorblind, that either they don't see color or don't see anything related to a specific color. Various vendors over the years have claimed using video documentation that an animal could not see their light because the animal didn't react to the light. As I recall, Laser Genetics did this with their green light. Another red light vendor did this as well. They would light up an animal and if it didn't run, they would proclaim that they could not see the light. That just wasn't factual. Here, they assumed that a lack of reaction meant a lack of capability. I can say that if they have been shot at by hunters with red lights or green lights previously, if they see the same color light, they will run.

One benefit of a red light, however, is that it does not have the throw or shine of a white light of on the same power. You are much less apt to over-illuminate your walk with a red light than a white light.

The intensity of the light sometimes does matter. Experimenting with hogs, I found that the same process for using a white light is also appropriate for using a red light. You hit them straight on with the hotspot of your beam, but instead lower the beam down on them slowly, illuminating them with the splash of the light first and not dropping the hotspot on them if you can help it.

It has also been my experience that raccoons, deer, hogs, and coyotes see red lasers just fine.

With all that said, running a red led light on a low setting may be your best non-NV option for navigation aid. With the power down, you aren't emitting a bright light and the throw will be greatly reduced. Bear in mind that you may only see it for 5 feet, but they will see it much farther because they see better at night than we do.

You might find this read to be of value to you.
Deer:

The Hunter’s Guide to Deer Vision | National Deer Association

https://deerassociation.com/hunters-guide-deer-vision/

Are Deer Color Blind? | How Deer See Color, Light, & Movement

https://www.themeateater.com/wired-to-hunt/whitetail-hunting/deer-vision-how-whitetails-see-color-light-and-movement

Whitetails can distinguish blue from red, but not green from red or orange from red. Research also suggests deer distinguish light grays and tans better than dark reds, browns and greens.

Coyote:

The Best Coyote Hunting Light: 5 Features You Must Have

https://outriggeroutdoors.com/blogs/night-hunting/the-best-coyote-hunting-light-5-features-you-must-have

The best coyote light is going to play to the few disadvantages nature's premier predator has. Coyotes have great eye sight, hearing, smell, and agility which makes it very difficult for coyote hunters to see them long enough to pull a shot off. Many times coyotes will come and go while the night hunter is not aware of their presence.â€¯It is important that yourâ€¯coyote hunting lightsâ€¯are designed toâ€¯light up dogs before they're senses tell them you're in the area.â€¯Hunting lights for coyotesâ€¯are few and far between, but some of the bestâ€¯coyote hunting lightsâ€¯canâ€¯be the difference in getting busted or having a successful set while calling coyotes. Coyote Hunting Light Discussion Topics Coyote Weaknesses 5 Features Every Coyote Light Should Have The Best Color Light for Coyote Hunting Adjustable Hunting Light Intensity Long Range Spot and Flood Combination Mounting Versatility for all Hunting Vehicles Strong & Non-Reflective Light Housing Recommendation for the Best Coyote Hunting Light Before we ask ourselves what the 5 must have features are of coyote hunting lights, let's dive into a coyotes weak points. If you don't want to read the background information on a coyotes weak points (to better understand the 5 features we choose), scroll down to the bottom to see the 5 Features Your Coyote Hunting Light Must Have. Coyote Weaknesses THEIR VISION While it is true that coyotes have good vision, they have a hard time seeing higher wavelength colors. The approximate high end of the wavelength spectrum they can see is near 540 nm, which is very close to green in color. Red is near 660 nm wavelength, which is why coyotes have a very hard time seeing it. Separate from colorations, coyotes do have better night vision and sensitivity to movement compared to humans. We humans are able to level the playing field by utilizing our gadgets and accessories. To compare coyotes vision to human vision, SC Psychological LTD. has done a great job at putting together a color spectrum graph:As shown in the graph above, a coyote can see two primary colors: yellow and blue. This is common vision for deer, hogs, and other dichromate vision mammals as well, so it doesn't just apply to coyote hunting lights. This is also one reason why it is best to not wear blue jeans when going deer hunting or coyote hunting as they tend to stick out like a sore thumb. If they are covered by a high rack or deer blind, of course then they are an ok option.While coyotes don't have the greatest color vision, another weakness is that they are not able to see as far as most humans can. Humans (some cases require glasses or contacts) can see 20/20 vision. Coyotes vision is closer to 20/70 vision and some may have even worse vision. This basically means a coyote can see at 20 feet what a human can see at 70 feet. The one vision strength coyotes have over humans is their peripheral vision. This is what can make it very hard to sneak up on a coyote. A human has 180 degree peripheral vision while coyotes have 260 degree peripheral vision. This is due to the shape of their head and location of their eyes. This is ultimately why coyote hunters should stay as still as possible, because any small bit of movement can be detected fairly easily if a coyote is in range. Here's more information about the science behind a coyote's vision and how to determine what color coyote hunting light works best for night hunting. THEY LET EVERYONE KNOW WHERE THEY ARE If you've ever been in coyote territory at night, you've most likely heard their high pitched yipping and howling they make prior to going on their nightly hunt. If you're calling in a dominant male coyote's territory - you may hear the dominant male howling or even barking at you from a distance. These yips and howl have a variety of behavioral purposes, all of them are related to communicating to other coyotes in the surrounding area. One purpose is to call the pack back together after a period of individual hunting, which is behavior you may hear in the early hours of the morning. Another purpose, which is commonly heard as the sun goes down, is to warn other coyotes in the surrounding area of their presence and to not trespass on their territorial boundaries. These coyote packs may sound like there are 10-20 coyotes howling together, but in most cases it is one male, one female, and their offspring. Most packs are sized in the range of 3-5 coyotes. The howling can make your skin crawl if it's the first time you've been exposed to it, but the best coyote hunters are able to use this to their advantage. The coyotes are telling you exactly where they are, leaving it up to you to move in close and find them. A Utah State Professor conducted a study which sought out to understand the behavioral attributes of coyotes and ultimately determine the meaning behind different types of barks and howls. You can learn more about this in our article Callin' all Coyotes: Proven Tips for a Successful Coyote Hunt Across the United States. THEY LOOK BACK WHEN THEY RETREAT If you're a quick, sharp shooter - this can play to your advantage. They have a habit of always looking back when they retreat, which gives a coyote hunter eye shine to go off of in attempting to take a shot. Using your coyote hunting light to quickly scan your surroundings can give you the best opportunity at picking up a retreating coyote. If the coyote located you and you are the reason it was spooked, then it may be time to move on to a different hunting spot. However, if the coyote was uncomfortable or unknowingly spooked, you may be able to save your stand by changing spots (even if it's only 50 ft away) and calling again using a different call. It's important to be aware that spooked coyotes and pressured coyotes are both very difficult to bring in. If you know the coyotes around you are spooked or pressured, it's best to keep your coyote hunting light on a dim setting to minimize the opportunity for them to pick up any small changes in their surroundings.Another common scenario we've seen is if you call in a double or a triple but you are only able to take one coyote down - don't give up. After the first shot, say you are running on a rabbit distress, switch to a pup distress-like high pitch sound and sometimes a coyote who hasn't been heavily pressured will turn around and come back. We've had success with this tactic on coyotes that haven't been heavily pressured. If a coyote is heavily pressured, they may not return for a long time. HEAVY SLEEPER Coyotes are very heavy sleepers, which is why it's not always a complete shock for someone to stumble upon a sleeping coyote in a field or pasture. The flip side is that they typically sleep during the day as they are more active at night.If you're night hunting, you have pretty slim chances to come across a sleeping coyote. Coyotes are nocturnal animals and they will easily travel 5 miles in one night searching for food. On the flip side, if you happen to locate a sleeping coyote, that lets you know they are spending time on your property and are comfortable enough with it to stay there during the day time. This is one indicator that you should break out your coyote hunting light at night to see if you can call in the entire pack. 5 Features Every Coyote Light Should Have We've managed to compile some of the coyote's weak points, now how can we take advantage of these weak points when looking for a quality predator hunting light for coyotes? The Best Color Lights for Coyote Hunting Coyotes are color blind by nature and because of this, the best color light for coyote hunting is red. They have a hard time seeing green as well, but red is a better color because it is a higher wavelength and gives you some

Pig:

Pig vision and management/handling

https://www.pig333.com/articles/pig-vision-and-management-handling_981/

Pigs have a panoramic vision of 310º and binocular vision of 35-50º (Fig. 1). This means that compared to humans, pigs prioritise their lateral monocular vision and this increases their panoramic vision (greater capacity for detecting possible danger, food, other pigs, etc) and decreases their bifocal vision (greater difficulty for calculating distances).

What Colors do Pigs see? (Are Pigs Colorblind) | Fact 2023 -

https://howitsee.com/what-colors-do-pigs-see/

Here, we have explained, "What colors do pigs see," along with answering other relevant queries on pigs. Read more.

**CJW** · 12-23-2022, 04:27 PM

Great read DNS

**Klem** · 12-23-2022, 09:34 PM

As I understand it, red light is favored for navigation because it does not destroy a person's night vision. Like the old WWII night fighter pilots waiting in the Ready room to scramble with only red lights permitted. This, given it takes about 15-20 min to fully transfer from day cones to night rods - which is also no coincidence with the time it takes to go from day to night every day. I use a red headtorch when fussing around at night if I can, so when you switch it off to shoot your night vision is still operating at close to 100% and you don't have to wait.

As for using red filters on a white spotlight, my experience is that roos (kangaroos) can see it, but don't seem as spooked as a bright white light. Then again, they can hear you and maybe smell you, especially if you are using a vehicle. While you are shining a red light thinking you have not been seen they knew you were there 10 minutes ago, but have decided to tolerate your use of the same land as long as they don't think you are concentrating on them. If you walk past an owl at night it's happy to sit watching you but the moment it realizes you're paying attention to it (maybe you've stopped and are looking straight at it), it starts agitating and/or takes off. Crows are the same in daylight - happy to let you do your thing 300M away, but the moment you change behavior and start concentrating on them, like take a gun or long stick out the back, they are off. You take a shot or sweep a spotlight around a paddock and all the previously shot-at animals a kilometer away know there is danger about that evening. What I am saying is that I think it is more than just the color of your lights.

One more thing, shining a bright white light about at animals can suddenly make them freeze and look at you for long enough to take the shot if you are working in teams and ready. The lesser lumens of a red light, or IR torch that leaks into the visual spectrum does not do this. I've been on shoots where bright white light is what is needed to see eyes at a distance, whereas otherwise you wouldn't know the animal was there. So you are using your presence to encourage the animal to self-reveal. Some foxes seem less interested in stopping and looking back at you than getting out of there. I have heard some people say that through previous close shaves the smarter animals know not to look at the light - Maybe, but for sure they know that vehicles, humans and lights come with gunfire, and it all represents danger.

**tdbru** · 12-24-2022, 01:48 AM

Thank you DNS, very educational. ok, blue jean or blue anything is out.

I didn't read anything definitive, though, on blaze orange. It appears that it is indistinguishable from red or green, but the text seemed to me to imply that it is still visible. Perhaps next deer hunt I should do without the blaze orange and see what happens.

Looks like camo patterns to break up outlines are still critical.

So I was misinformed. Deer, coyotes, and pigs do have cones in their retinas. just not the biochemistry in them to identify the reds/oranges wavelengths. interesting.

So, a deer may not see my red head light as red, but likely sees some kind of light nonetheless. hmmm.... Getting to a hunting spot before dawn and not being detected while on the way just got a lot tougher it seems........

thanks again DNS.
-tdbru

Do all guys in Texas have X-ray vision?

Do all guys in Texas have X-ray vision?

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