SOCOM Looking at .260 Rem and 6.5 Creedmoor Sniper Systems

[stanc]

I think 6mm or 6.35mm would make an ideal general purpose rifle or carbine bore, as well as a light machine-gun, given the right projectile profile and construction.

A 6x39mm off the 5.45 cartridge would be interesting.

6.5mm for the heavier shoulder-fired weapons.

Totally agree.

Let's keep it on track for discussions solely about SOCOM's adoption of 6.5mm for Sniper Systems now, with the recent selection of 6.5CM and the TDP issued to ammunition manufacturers.

I wonder what bullet(s) they'll be going with.

I have not been keeping current with military sniper ammo, but the last I recall was Sierra MatchKings were being used exclusively.

So I'd guess it will be a MatchKing, 123gr, 142gr, or maybe the new 150gr: https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/...mm-150-gr-HPBT

6.5CM or .250 Rem with a lighter bullet will smoke the dog crap out of armor, especially if you use the 6.5mm 855A1-type projectile.

I think it's a safe bet that such a bullet is being developed for the 6.5mm Assault Machine Gun, if not for the semi-auto sniper rifle.

[stanc]

FWIW: Polymer-cased "6.5 SOCOM" (.260 Rem) ammunition fired in rifle and light machine gun.

[LRRPF52]

Someone needs to explain to Yeager the concept of 3-5rd burst when running the gun.

Woud have loved to have .260 Rem performance from our pigs.

[n9nwo]

What we have found is that 5.56 is too light for the type of buildings we are engaging in Europe and Asia. Mostly stone or brick. 6.5mm not only has a sweet spot but has less recoil for the same job that is being done by the 7.62mm

If we do have a two caliber system then it should be 6.5mm and .338 (8.59mm).

[LRRPF52]

What we have found is that 5.56 is too light for the type of buildings we are engaging in Europe and Asia. Mostly stone or brick. 6.5mm not only has a sweet spot but has less recoil for the same job that is being done by the 7.62mm

If we do have a two caliber system then it should be 6.5mm and .338 (8.59mm).

I wouldn't want to hump .338 ammo as a dismount. I can see it for supplanting and replacing .50 BMG on vehicles/aircraft, but not for dismounted, linked ammo.

M855A1 is a great barrier penetration round in 5.56 NATO.

[pooty]

What we have found is that 5.56 is too light for the type of buildings we are engaging in Europe and Asia. Mostly stone or brick. 6.5mm not only has a sweet spot but has less recoil for the same job that is being done by the 7.62mm

If we do have a two caliber system then it should be 6.5mm and .338 (8.59mm).

Did you ever come clean on your military background? I recall you and your boys were going toe to toe with the Taliban like it was cowboys and injuns.

One of the things I noticed was that while I was issued an M9 in Afghanistan, generally outside the wire we carried rifles. The M9 was for having a weapon on base (FOP). We also had a unit policy of dropping our weapons to slings then going to steel (knives for the most part) if we were over ran. Under 10 ft we risked shooting each other. So knives were better. One of our guys carried a Tomahawk and used it against the Tabliban. Sliced one insurgent from chest to stomach. Scared the crap out of the rest of them.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?501-PDWs-and-other-small-arms&p=148031#post148031

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?13469-Evolution-of-weapons-in-modern-warfare&p=148360

[LRRPF52]

n9nwo: We also had a unit policy of dropping our weapons to slings then going to steel (knives for the most part) if we were over ran(sic).

So your unit's specific TTPs were to let weapons hang on slings, then draw knives for direct combat inside your perimeter because of concerns over fratricide?

What COP was this on? What region of Afghanistan, what unit? What year and date please?

[A5BLASTER]

Seems like I have seen this exact same thread somewheres before.

I mean like almost word for word.

Well not the whole thread just the last few post lol.

[bj139]

So, I take it that 260 Remington will fall in popularity and 6.5 Creedmoor will rise, making brass more available.
I am considering these in a Savage bolt action barrel.

[stanc]

So, I take it that 260 Remington will fall in popularity and 6.5 Creedmoor will rise, making brass more available.

I don't know if .260 REM will fall in popularity, but I'm sure you're right about 6.5 CM. Adoption by the military typically increases popularity among civilians.

[Randy99CL]

So, I take it that 260 Remington will fall in popularity and 6.5 Creedmoor will rise, making brass more available. I am considering these in a Savage bolt action barrel.

I don't think getting brass for either will be a problem for decades to come.

I've been comparing these two, too. 260 Rem case holds 3.32cc, 6.5CM is 3.12cc almost no practical difference.
260 Rem not as readily available; some of the rifles I like are in 6.5 and not 260.

I've gotten impression that 6.5CM is more efficient? More powder in 260R doesn't give equivalent increase in velocity??
6.5CM may be inherently more accurate???

[grayfox]

The standard trade-off line has been Creed is a bit more accurate and efficient, 260 gives ~100 ft/s more MV.
I've got 2 6.5 Creeds and love them. They've got all the punch I'm looking for in distance plenty of knockdown and little recoil to bother with.
It's a big plus that both brass and good commercial ammo are readily available. Both of my CM's shoot the factory stuff well and are easy to load for.
Kind of like a Grendel-senior or Gr-magnum..LOL.

[bj139]

The American Gunner ammo is available in 6.5 Creedmoor but not in 260 Remington.
I think I will look for a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel.

[Randy99CL]

The American Gunner ammo is available in 6.5 Creedmoor but not in 260 Remington.
I think I will look for a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel.

I saw the same thing. Bought a 6.5CM bolt gun and went straight to SW for a box of AG.

Edit: This is an example of how one detail can decide an issue.
For me it was the availability of lower-cost rifles. T/C Compass, Ruger American, Rem 783 and most others are available in 6.5CM but not 260 Rem.Rem 783 Walnut $350.jpg

[SDet]

It's all about case length. Everyone wants the longest bullets, and ap gets long.