Tactical Life posts that the military is changing to the 6.8 in SAW and M4

[montana]

No, it is not. Since the ability to defeat body armor is the goal, penetration is more important than precision.

.

This could be the reason.https://www.bitchute.com/video/agWDW2jTsZk/

[jaybee1669]

Huh, not bad for under $100 a plate.

[NightFisher]

Either that round is magic or Battle Tanks are a lot less powerful than I thought.

"The U.S. Army is eyeing a new assault rifle that can rip through body armor with the power of a battle tank. "

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6489023/US-Army-begin-using-new-automatic-rifles-fire-power-TANK-soon-2022.html

[JASmith]

Note that not much is said about how the performance is attained.

Smoke, mirrors, or technology break through? I know that the energy budget needed to get the very high velocities being bandied about suggests a very large case.

Hence, my leaning toward the assessment that the hype is 90% smoke and mirrors with just a modest step forward in thechnology.

[A5BLASTER]

To be honest what I got after reading that was this.

They took a press release statement saying what they want to achieve with this new ammo and weapon system and then chopped it up and posted it to read and sound as it was already proven design and soon to be adopted by the military.

That's what I got from reading it.

A bunch of market hype and smoke and mirrors. I'm all for our military having the best and being the best.

[LRRPF52]

They're saying (Generals and Colonels) that the new Next Generation Squad Weapon will be lighter, produce more mv than a 26" .270 Weatherby Magnum from a 16" barrel, with lighter ammo, using chamber pressures from artillery pieces. It will also be impervious to soldier abuse and weather conditions, while mounting an integrated electro-optical targeting system that does most of the work for the shooter.

Next summer, prototypes of the new weapon are expected to be ready for test fires. By the end of next year, an advanced night vision and sophisticated targeting system will be reaching troops. All with the goal of getting more rounds downrange, on target and exceeding anything adversaries have in their inventory or will have for years to come.

Though it is an Army program, Marines and special operations forces have been involved in providing feedback on weapons development and will receive the new weapon when fielded. Marines are already scheduled to get thousands of the new night vision devices the Army plans to start fielding late next year.

“This is a weapon that could defeat any body armor, any planned body armor that we know of in the future,” Army Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Milley told Military Times. “This is a weapon that can go out at ranges that are unknown today and that you can see accurately. There is a target acquisition system built into this thing that is unlike anything that exists today. This is a very sophisticated weapon, and we think it’s very resilient. It will stand all the rigors of weather, terrain, and soldier use, and all of that kind of stuff. This is a pretty impressive gun.”

“It will be better than any weapon on earth today, by far,” Milley added.

Military Times article

Reminds me of the OICW, ACR, and XM8 programs. They could achieve better retained energy at distance if they used a 6.5mm and cut the mv requirement down to a "more reasonable" 3260fps (since we're throwing reason out the window anyway with the idea that a 16" barrel will generate 3400fps with a 125gr EPR).

Looks like somebody sold the idea to them that .277" bore was a good idea, as they can't do the basic math or run a ballistics program to check the statements that are being made to them.

A 6.5mm 125gr EPR with a .312 G7 BC will exceed the performance they are looking at. Both will be barrel burners assuming we're dealing with conventional barrel steel for military applications, but the barrel metallurgy will have to be improved if they want any kind of barrel life from this concept. We're talking cutting edge super alloy developmental work on crystalline growth or other emerging technologies, not traditional drilling and rifling through chromoly steels.

A theoretical 6.5mm EPR would make a lot more sense for this, unless there is some parameter they're looking at that precludes it. It exhibits superior terminal performance for armor defeat at 600m, less wind drift, and doesn't require pressures to be driven as high. Lower pressures than what they're looking at would allow more reasonable weapon weight and bulk to reach their desired reduction over current systems.

The whole thing sounds like a monstrous abortion though, aside from the respondent contractors who will get funding for a few years to show the Army the limitations of applied physics, then have it cancelled. I still think at a minimum, like with the ACR program, several little did bits in ancillary systems will migrate onto the M4A1 to help with better integration of the electro-optics, human interface, and furniture.

The chance of success is extremely low, but if they pull off the numbers they are claiming (exceeding .270 Weatherby from a 16" with less recoil and weight), I'm not one to get in the way of progress.

[VASCAR2]

If they meet these hyped program results I can’t see how it will be accomplished with current technology. Smokeless powder is a chemical reaction at ignition and then is a chemical action which produces pressure in a vessel.

Curious if the new weapon will feature some type of caseless ammo where the propellant will completely enclose the projectile. Will the projectile be a hypersonic depleted uranium bullet? Pressure equivalent to a tank round with penetrative power to blast through body armor. Maybe they’ve figured out a way to downsize a 120 mm smooth bore from an M1A3 tank.

[grayfox]

They're gonna be micro-jet projectiles, the ramjet ignites once it clears the barrel, so there won't be any recoil and they can get hypersonic in a flash...
Also whaddya bet those barrels will be cryo-ed unobtanium?

LOL!!!!!

Seriously, is this a repeat of the M16 that was so foolproof that it didn't need any cleaning? A guy wonders.

[Sticks]

I have visions of "The Pentagon Wars"

[LRRPF52]

I have visions of "The Pentagon Wars"

That movie was actually a pretty low-ball hit piece with a lot of false premises. Of all the weapons systems they could have picked from, they knew that it wouldn't work with any of the ones people had heard of, so they chose the Bradley IFV hoping that nobody would mention its combat record in Desert Storm, where it was instrumental (along with the much-maligned M-1 Abrams MBT) in turning Soviet-built T-72s into manned targets for sport, even when Division-sized Iraqi armored units were dug-in with a reverse-slope defense at the Battle of 73 Eastings in their own training grounds.

The Bradley with its highly-ridiculed TOW missiles (in the movie), delivered precision fires on Iraqi tanks along with the M-1 Abrams, who were able to fire on the move at night, and working together, the 2 armor/mech platforms performed admirably. More importantly, a decade or so of regular training at the National Training Center at Fort Irwin is where Desert Storm was won, before Saddam even invaded Kuwait. Same with the air component forces and Red Flag exercises out of Nellis.

Someone really does need to make a movie about the adoption of the AR15 though, because it is full of the type of drama depicted in Pentagon Wars, only its the Army Ordnance sabotaging and trying to kill the AR15, rather than supporting it.

[Sticks]

No to stray off topic, but I viewed the movie not as a hit against the Bradley, but more the way the .mil progresses. The amount of time (started in 1958, deployed in 1981) and $$$ to finally get one in the field, and the transition/development generations from a large capacity APC to what it is now.

I can see that happening with a 70k psi chamber pressure small arms development and shoulder stars tweaking it right when the damn thing is ready for mfg. Starts in 2016, in the field 2030...right about the time we have figured out the energy problem with rail guns, or light/plasma guns (no ballistic worries there). Hopefully by then DARPA will have the mech suits figured out as well.

[NugginFutz]

30 years will see a radical change in battlefield tactics, as well as aerial combat. Directed Energy weapons are being enthusiastically developed by all the major powers, with several examples already fielded, land sea and air. China has apparently already announced a man portable DE weapon, capable of carbonizing skin within 1/2 mile. And, yes, it's battery powered. (Picture the Energizer Bunny wearing an exo-suit and a plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.)

I've personally participated in various successful shoot down events involving DE weapons of various types. The targets ranged from drones and UAV's, to mortar rounds in the air, to full scale ballistic missiles. Other team members lit up seaborne craft and disabled various personnel vehicles.

The times, they are a-changin', my friends. The only thing holding the full scale development and deployment of such things is the anticipated world-wide condemnation of such weapons on the battlefield (the haves and the have-nots will have different points of view as to what is considered humane), and the lack of all weather capability of such systems on the battlefield. For a determined world power, though, these are not particularly significant hurdles to overcome. Ultimately, it comes down to who is willing to throw the greatest pile of $$ at it (or just wait and steal the tech from your neighbor).

[JASmith]

The good news is that eye protection will see a huge leap forward.

[montana]

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/f7c22b74-c6a2-4b99-88f0-2f3dee1a7d20

[Sticks]

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/f7c22b7...0-2f3dee1a7d20

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